[FRIAM] Free Willy in the Atlantic

Sat Apr 3 12:22:53 EDT 2021

 Marcus wrote:
>
> I once wrote an agent model of some of my colleagues.  It was a minor
> catharsis.   If I were to write one for agents that have first names
> that start with the letter “S”, I’d have a predicate that waited for a
> long thread to evolve, and then summarized them with a few tangential
> snarkier-than-thou remarks.    It would be a better accomplishment to
> learn the deterministic agent behavior with a hidden markov model,
> maybe.  Authorship comes with the ability to embellish, which is maybe
> one appeal of ABMs.
>

So... "snarkier than thou" isn't the FriAM objective function?   I'm
sure I get a double-dose from having both first and last name beginning
with 'S'.  I should probably try reading with a different lens...

To be fair (to me, because, who else?) I wrote that one much earlier in
the thread than it appeared.   I am fairly busy on Fridays which is one
of the reasons I don't weigh in often on vFriam...  but whilst in the
spirit of April 1, I couldn't help misreading the original subject
line.   I might have taken the extra moment to trace the whole thread
that followed, but I suppose I imagined everyone likely to weigh in on
the thread was on vFriam beating the horse of free will with their
gumflaps rather than their touchtyping.  My bad.

I *will* claim the title "more tangential than though" and maybe even
"TL;DR-er than though", and as evidenced here "more self-explanatory
than though".

Your ABMs could be rather revealing and perhaps therefore entertaining...
>
>  
>
> *From:* Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com> *On Behalf Of *Steve Smith
> *Sent:* Friday, April 2, 2021 1:05 PM
> *To:* friam at redfish.com
> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] Free Willy in the Atlantic
>
>  
>
> Dave West wrote:
>
>     Pieter quoted: /"the brain is a physical system like any other,
>     and we have no more will to operate it in a particular way than we
>     will our heart to beat"./
>
>      
>
>     *But we do have the ability, and can "will" our heart to beat in a
>     particular way.*
>
>      
>
>     Not only that, we (at least some individuals in the world) can
>     control pretty much every aspect of our "autonomous nervous
>     system." I learned how to generate alpha waves in my brain while
>     awake and talking. Researchers recently conducted cogent
>     conversations with individuals in the middle of lucid dreams. Then
>     there is all the "bio-feedback" data and practices. Hundreds of
>     similar examples could be cited.
>
>      
>
>     Just because we don't, as a general rule, does not mean we cannot.
>
>      
>
>     Not saying anything in this post is an argument for free will —
>     just that the quoted argument against free will is fatally flawed.
>
> nahhh...   it just looks like you (and the Swamis) can modify your
> autonomic functions and your brain waves...  the fact is, given who
> you/they are in those circumstances, you *had* to, you couldn't have
> chosen to do otherwise!   In fact you can't help but *believe* you had
> free will and exercised it, just like *I* who am sure you *don't* have
> free will have no choice but to believe *that*.    Anything else is
> *inconceivable* ! (/"there's that word again"/ -Inigio Martinez)
>
> Or at least *that* is what I choose to believe today.  I wonder if I
> will have a choice about what I feel about all this today?  Or after
> some more limp-noodle-beatings of the topic here?
>
> Arg,
>
>  - Smarg
>
> PS... Don't free Willy in the Atlantic, his entire pod is in the
> Pacific.   Was that a Trump-administration rule, that unaccompanied
> minor Orcas stuck in Seaworld can only be released in an ocean other
> than that of their origin!  Happy onecet of April!
>
>      
>
>     davewest
>
>      
>
>      
>
>      
>
>     On Fri, Apr 2, 2021, at 7:10 AM, Pieter Steenekamp wrote:
>
>         From a strict scientific perspective I accept that we don't
>         have free will. I don't argue that we have free will. I
>         accept, and I quote from the article quoted above:
>
>         "the brain is a physical system like any other, and we have no
>         more will to operate it in a particular way than we will our
>         heart to beat". But...
>
>          
>
>         From how humans perceive our own actions, I assert that we do
>         have free will of "some sorts''. Similar to some computer
>         programs that also have free will of "some sorts". We all
>         agree that AlphGo who beat Lee Sedol in Go does not have free
>         will, it did exactly what the computer code instructed it to
>         do, but it came up with creative play that the human
>         programmers did not even know about. This is in my view also
>         "some sorts" of free will.
>
>          
>
>         On Fri, 2 Apr 2021 at 14:15, Jochen Fromm <jofr at cas-group.net
>         <mailto:jofr at cas-group.net>> wrote:
>
>             Was it only 150 years ago when Charles Darwin first
>             published 'On the Origin of Species' ? It feels longer.
>             Interesting story from Stephen Cave
>
>             https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2016/06/theres-no-such-thing-as-free-will/480750/
>             <https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2016/06/theres-no-such-thing-as-free-will/480750/>
>
>              
>
>             -J.
>
>              
>
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