[FRIAM] Free Willy in the Atlantic
Steve Smith
sasmyth at swcp.com
Sat Apr 3 21:44:44 EDT 2021
<grin> I do think a finite state machine that could generate credible
FriAM posts would be fun thing. Maybe even extrapolate to "new" members
whose style represents caricatures of existing ones, or hybrids
between... Or, as Glen is apt to reference, various Homunculi of each
of us. I also think Glen has claimed that he did build (or just train
up) some kind of existing babble-generator on his own text for his own
entertainment. Hmmmm....
I think *I* could entertain myself (read procrastinate) with collection
of such bots as well as I can with the (presumably meat) folks here.
If you DO create such a machine, you could probably get Guerin to change
*my* subscription to a parallel list that nobody here has to read, and I
could just go on lampooning the various cryptonymic agents proxying for
each member. To continue the cult-film referencing, I might slip into
a Jim Carey movie and enjoy the Eternal Sunshine experience!
I particularly liked the conceit in the Spike Jonze flick _HER_ where a
simulacrum of Alan Watts shows up in the milieu to carry the
copies/instances/facets/homunculii of "HER" herself to evolve beyond the
human-condition and ultimately leave HER human companion(s) behind to
reconnect with one another.
= Steve
On 4/3/21 11:33 AM, Marcus Daniels wrote:
>
> Part of the model would involve finding seasonality like that. A
> difficult part would be building the NLP capability to generate
> plausible sentences from each agent type. However, there’s a big
> archive to draw upon if one were to take a statistical inference
> approach. General dispositions would be pretty easy, I think. At
> least they are obvious to me. Also noteworthy is that there are
> classes of subconversations that I think just has to do with
> demographics. For example, remember the late XYZ.
>
>
>
> I know Nick once dreamed of publications out of FRIAM. I wonder if
> he’d settle for a finite state machine? If it all worked out,
> though, I’d have to find a replacement procrastination activity.
>
>
>
> *From:* Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com> *On Behalf Of *Steve Smith
> *Sent:* Saturday, April 3, 2021 9:23 AM
> *To:* friam at redfish.com
> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] Free Willy in the Atlantic
>
>
>
> Marcus wrote:
>
> I once wrote an agent model of some of my colleagues. It was a
> minor catharsis. If I were to write one for agents that have
> first names that start with the letter “S”, I’d have a predicate
> that waited for a long thread to evolve, and then summarized them
> with a few tangential snarkier-than-thou remarks. It would be a
> better accomplishment to learn the deterministic agent behavior
> with a hidden markov model, maybe. Authorship comes with the
> ability to embellish, which is maybe one appeal of ABMs.
>
>
>
> So... "snarkier than thou" isn't the FriAM objective function? I'm
> sure I get a double-dose from having both first and last name
> beginning with 'S'. I should probably try reading with a different
> lens...
>
> To be fair (to me, because, who else?) I wrote that one much earlier
> in the thread than it appeared. I am fairly busy on Fridays which is
> one of the reasons I don't weigh in often on vFriam... but whilst in
> the spirit of April 1, I couldn't help misreading the original subject
> line. I might have taken the extra moment to trace the whole thread
> that followed, but I suppose I imagined everyone likely to weigh in on
> the thread was on vFriam beating the horse of free will with their
> gumflaps rather than their touchtyping. My bad.
>
> I *will* claim the title "more tangential than though" and maybe even
> "TL;DR-er than though", and as evidenced here "more self-explanatory
> than though".
>
> Your ABMs could be rather revealing and perhaps therefore entertaining...
>
>
>
> *From:* Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com>
> <mailto:friam-bounces at redfish.com> *On Behalf Of *Steve Smith
> *Sent:* Friday, April 2, 2021 1:05 PM
> *To:* friam at redfish.com <mailto:friam at redfish.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] Free Willy in the Atlantic
>
>
>
> Dave West wrote:
>
>
> Pieter quoted: /"the brain is a physical system like any
> other, and we have no more will to operate it in a particular
> way than we will our heart to beat"./
>
>
>
> *But we do have the ability, and can "will" our heart to beat
> in a particular way.*
>
>
>
> Not only that, we (at least some individuals in the world) can
> control pretty much every aspect of our "autonomous nervous
> system." I learned how to generate alpha waves in my brain
> while awake and talking. Researchers recently conducted cogent
> conversations with individuals in the middle of lucid dreams.
> Then there is all the "bio-feedback" data and practices.
> Hundreds of similar examples could be cited.
>
>
>
> Just because we don't, as a general rule, does not mean we cannot.
>
>
>
> Not saying anything in this post is an argument for free will
> — just that the quoted argument against free will is fatally
> flawed.
>
> nahhh... it just looks like you (and the Swamis) can modify your
> autonomic functions and your brain waves... the fact is, given
> who you/they are in those circumstances, you *had* to, you
> couldn't have chosen to do otherwise! In fact you can't help but
> *believe* you had free will and exercised it, just like *I* who am
> sure you *don't* have free will have no choice but to believe
> *that*. Anything else is *inconceivable* ! (/"there's that word
> again"/ -Inigio Martinez)
>
> Or at least *that* is what I choose to believe today. I wonder if
> I will have a choice about what I feel about all this today? Or
> after some more limp-noodle-beatings of the topic here?
>
> Arg,
>
> - Smarg
>
> PS... Don't free Willy in the Atlantic, his entire pod is in the
> Pacific. Was that a Trump-administration rule, that
> unaccompanied minor Orcas stuck in Seaworld can only be released
> in an ocean other than that of their origin! Happy onecet of April!
>
>
>
> davewest
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Apr 2, 2021, at 7:10 AM, Pieter Steenekamp wrote:
>
> From a strict scientific perspective I accept that we
> don't have free will. I don't argue that we have free
> will. I accept, and I quote from the article quoted above:
>
> "the brain is a physical system like any other, and we
> have no more will to operate it in a particular way than
> we will our heart to beat". But...
>
>
>
> From how humans perceive our own actions, I assert that we
> do have free will of "some sorts''. Similar to some
> computer programs that also have free will of "some
> sorts". We all agree that AlphGo who beat Lee Sedol in Go
> does not have free will, it did exactly what the computer
> code instructed it to do, but it came up with creative
> play that the human programmers did not even know about.
> This is in my view also "some sorts" of free will.
>
>
>
> On Fri, 2 Apr 2021 at 14:15, Jochen Fromm
> <jofr at cas-group.net <mailto:jofr at cas-group.net>> wrote:
>
> Was it only 150 years ago when Charles Darwin first
> published 'On the Origin of Species' ? It feels
> longer. Interesting story from Stephen Cave
>
> https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2016/06/theres-no-such-thing-as-free-will/480750/
> <https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2016/06/theres-no-such-thing-as-free-will/480750/>
>
>
>
> -J.
>
>
>
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