[FRIAM] ivermectin, nope

Sun Aug 15 13:11:37 EDT 2021

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---
Frank C. Wimberly
140 Calle Ojo Feliz,
Santa Fe, NM 87505

505 670-9918
Santa Fe, NM

On Sun, Aug 15, 2021, 11:00 AM Roger Critchlow <rec at elf.org> wrote:

> Oh, forgot to clearly identify the irony:   ;-)
>
> Doing diligence on this crap is way exhausting.  I am entirely in sympathy
> with your dilemma.
>
> Even if ivermectin does nothing useful, it still may be a useful treatment
> in situations where no other treatment is available.  And fabricating
> evidence of its efficacy would also be a comfort to the patients and the
> medical staff in that situation.   A placebo can be better than nothing, a
> placebo with a bogus story behind it can be even better.
>
> -- rec --
>
> -- rec --
>
> On Sun, Aug 15, 2021 at 12:37 PM Roger Critchlow <rec at elf.org> wrote:
>
>> Pieter --
>>
>> I looked over the links you listed.
>>
>> They seem to claim that withdrawl of ivermectin caused the spike in Covid
>> cases in India, and also that administering ivermectin caused the end of
>> the spike in Covid cases.    Both of these claims are sort of hard to
>> evaluate, since I don't see any evidence that anyone has ever distributed
>> ivermectin/doxycycline/zinc kits very widely, either before or after the
>> spike in infections.  Constructing and delivering kits for 1.366 billion
>> people would have been quite an achievement for any economy.
>>
>> I followed the links to https://c19ivermectin.com/ and found the list of
>> ivermectin studies.  The list presented currently claims 110 studies, 68
>> peer reviewed, 64 involving control and treatment groups, but it's puffed
>> up with another 50 entries which are news clippings, press releases,
>> meta-analyses, reviews, and other miscellanea.
>>
>> I looked an early review article,
>> https://www.nature.com/articles/s41429-020-0336-z.pdf, though the pdf is
>> hosted at nature.com, it's from a different journal.
>>
>> The Journal of Antibiotics (2020) 73:593–602
>>> https://doi.org/10.1038/s41429-020-0336-z
>>> Ivermectin: a systematic review from antiviral effects to COVID-19
>>> complementary regimen Fatemeh Heidary1 ● Reza Gharebaghi2,3
>>> 1 Head of Ophthalmology Division, Taleghani Hospital, Ahvaz Jundishapur
>>> University of Medical Sciences, Ahvaz, Iran
>>> 2 Kish International Campus, University of Tehran, Tehran, Iran
>>> 3 International Virtual Ophthalmic Research Center (IVORC), Austin, TX,
>>> USA
>>> Abstract
>>> Ivermectin proposes many potentials effects to treat a range of
>>> diseases, with its antimicrobial, antiviral, and anti-cancer properties as
>>> a wonder drug. It is highly effective against many microorganisms including
>>> some viruses. In this comprehensive systematic review, antiviral effects of
>>> ivermectin are summarized including in vitro and in vivo studies over the
>>> past 50 years. Several studies reported antiviral effects of ivermectin on
>>> RNA viruses such as Zika, dengue, yellow fever, West Nile, Hendra,
>>> Newcastle, Venezuelan equine encephalitis, chikungunya, Semliki Forest,
>>> Sindbis, Avian influenza A, Porcine Reproductive and Respiratory Syndrome,
>>> Human immunodeficiency virus type 1, and severe acute respiratory syndrome
>>> coronavirus 2. Furthermore, there are some studies showing antiviral
>>> effects of ivermectin against DNA viruses such as Equine herpes type 1, BK
>>> polyomavirus, pseudorabies, porcine circovirus 2, and bovine herpesvirus 1.
>>> Ivermmust beectin plays a role in several biological mechanisms, therefore
>>> it could serve as a potential candidate in the treatment of a wide range of
>>> viruses including COVID-19 as well as other types of positive-sense
>>> single-stranded RNA viruses. In vivo studies of animal models revealed a
>>> broad range of antiviral effects of ivermectin, however, clinical trials
>>> are necessary to appraise the potential efficacy of ivermectin in clinical
>>> setting
>>>
>>
>> The quick read is that ivermectin interferes with viral reproduction *in
>> vitro*, but fails to work *in vivo*, for all of these viruses.  It's
>> been tried against every virus that's turned up in the last 50 years, had
>> some *in vitro* anti-viral activity, but never became an approved
>> treatment for any of them.
>>
>> It must be that the elites are consipring.  That's the only reasonable
>> explanation for the facts.
>>
>> -- rec --
>>
>> On Sun, Aug 15, 2021 at 2:28 AM Pieter Steenekamp <
>> pieters at randcontrols.co.za> wrote:
>>
>>> Nick,
>>>
>>> Thanks for pointing out that my message is not very clear. Let me
>>> rewrite it with a change in wording, I hope it's better this time.
>>>
>>> I believe that the study that Marcus referred to above ,
>>> https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2021-08-11/ivermectin-no-effect-covid   ,
>>> is most probably correct.
>>>
>>> Help me if I'm wrong. It proves that according to a specific protocol,
>>> there are no benefits against covid  in using ivermectin. Does that mean
>>> that there are no other prophylaxis protocols that include ivermectin that
>>> do give benefits?
>>>
>>> I'd like to make sense of what's happening in India. According to some
>>> (see references below), the use of ivermectin is effective against covid in
>>> India. I really don't know how reliable these sources are. Does anyone have
>>> better information? I'd like to know.
>>>
>>> References:
>>> https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/india/
>>>
>>>
>>> https://assets.researchsquare.com/files/rs-208785/v1/d6ff79a3-d354-4aba-a6b0-4bc123bbd225.pdf
>>>
>>>
>>> https://stuartbramhall.wordpress.com/2021/04/29/when-india-stopped-prescribing-ivermectin-and-started-vaccinating-deaths-shot-up/
>>>
>>>
>>> https://nonvenipacem.com/2021/07/31/india-crushed-covid-using-ivermectin-and-you-can-too/
>>>
>>>
>>> https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2021/05/elites-worried-covid-cases-india-plummet-government-promotes-ivermectin-hydroxychloroquine-use/
>>>
>>> Pieter
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, 14 Aug 2021 at 23:13, <thompnickson2 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Pieter
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Did you perhaps leave out a link?  Which study?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Nick Thompson
>>>>
>>>> ThompNickSon2 at gmail.com
>>>>
>>>> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *From:* Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com> *On Behalf Of *Pieter
>>>> Steenekamp
>>>> *Sent:* Saturday, August 14, 2021 12:09 PM
>>>> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <
>>>> friam at redfish.com>
>>>> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] ivermectin, nope
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I believe this study is most probably correct.
>>>>
>>>> Help me if I'm wrong. It proves that according to a specific protocol,
>>>> there are no benefits against covid  in using ivermectin. Does that mean
>>>> that there are no other prophylaxis protocols that include ivermectin that
>>>> do give benefits?
>>>>
>>>> I'd like to make sense of what's happening in India. According to some
>>>> (see reference below), the use of ivermectin is effective against covid in
>>>> India. I really don't know how reliable these sources are. Does anyone have
>>>> better information? I'd like to know.
>>>>
>>>> References:
>>>>
>>>> https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/india/
>>>>
>>>> https://assets.researchsquare.com/files/rs-208785/v1/d6ff79a3-d354-4aba-a6b0-4bc123bbd225.pdf
>>>>
>>>> https://stuartbramhall.wordpress.com/2021/04/29/when-india-stopped-prescribing-ivermectin-and-started-vaccinating-deaths-shot-up/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> https://nonvenipacem.com/2021/07/31/india-crushed-covid-using-ivermectin-and-you-can-too/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2021/05/elites-worried-covid-cases-india-plummet-government-promotes-ivermectin-hydroxychloroquine-use/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Pieter
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, 14 Aug 2021 at 17:34, Marcus Daniels <marcus at snoutfarm.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2021-08-11/ivermectin-no-effect-covid
>>>>
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