[FRIAM] ivermectin, nope

Sun Aug 15 13:16:28 EDT 2021

Thanks for the comments gentlemen.

Pieter

On Sun, 15 Aug 2021 at 19:12, Frank Wimberly <wimberly3 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Like
>
>
> ---
> Frank C. Wimberly
> 140 Calle Ojo Feliz,
> Santa Fe, NM 87505
>
> 505 670-9918
> Santa Fe, NM
>
> On Sun, Aug 15, 2021, 11:00 AM Roger Critchlow <rec at elf.org> wrote:
>
>> Oh, forgot to clearly identify the irony:   ;-)
>>
>> Doing diligence on this crap is way exhausting.  I am entirely in
>> sympathy with your dilemma.
>>
>> Even if ivermectin does nothing useful, it still may be a useful
>> treatment in situations where no other treatment is available.  And
>> fabricating evidence of its efficacy would also be a comfort to the
>> patients and the medical staff in that situation.   A placebo can be better
>> than nothing, a placebo with a bogus story behind it can be even better.
>>
>> -- rec --
>>
>> -- rec --
>>
>> On Sun, Aug 15, 2021 at 12:37 PM Roger Critchlow <rec at elf.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Pieter --
>>>
>>> I looked over the links you listed.
>>>
>>> They seem to claim that withdrawl of ivermectin caused the spike in
>>> Covid cases in India, and also that administering ivermectin caused the end
>>> of the spike in Covid cases.    Both of these claims are sort of hard to
>>> evaluate, since I don't see any evidence that anyone has ever distributed
>>> ivermectin/doxycycline/zinc kits very widely, either before or after the
>>> spike in infections.  Constructing and delivering kits for 1.366 billion
>>> people would have been quite an achievement for any economy.
>>>
>>> I followed the links to https://c19ivermectin.com/ and found the list
>>> of ivermectin studies.  The list presented currently claims 110 studies, 68
>>> peer reviewed, 64 involving control and treatment groups, but it's puffed
>>> up with another 50 entries which are news clippings, press releases,
>>> meta-analyses, reviews, and other miscellanea.
>>>
>>> I looked an early review article,
>>> https://www.nature.com/articles/s41429-020-0336-z.pdf, though the pdf
>>> is hosted at nature.com, it's from a different journal.
>>>
>>> The Journal of Antibiotics (2020) 73:593–602
>>>> https://doi.org/10.1038/s41429-020-0336-z
>>>> Ivermectin: a systematic review from antiviral effects to COVID-19
>>>> complementary regimen Fatemeh Heidary1 ● Reza Gharebaghi2,3
>>>> 1 Head of Ophthalmology Division, Taleghani Hospital, Ahvaz Jundishapur
>>>> University of Medical Sciences, Ahvaz, Iran
>>>> 2 Kish International Campus, University of Tehran, Tehran, Iran
>>>> 3 International Virtual Ophthalmic Research Center (IVORC), Austin, TX,
>>>> USA
>>>> Abstract
>>>> Ivermectin proposes many potentials effects to treat a range of
>>>> diseases, with its antimicrobial, antiviral, and anti-cancer properties as
>>>> a wonder drug. It is highly effective against many microorganisms including
>>>> some viruses. In this comprehensive systematic review, antiviral effects of
>>>> ivermectin are summarized including in vitro and in vivo studies over the
>>>> past 50 years. Several studies reported antiviral effects of ivermectin on
>>>> RNA viruses such as Zika, dengue, yellow fever, West Nile, Hendra,
>>>> Newcastle, Venezuelan equine encephalitis, chikungunya, Semliki Forest,
>>>> Sindbis, Avian influenza A, Porcine Reproductive and Respiratory Syndrome,
>>>> Human immunodeficiency virus type 1, and severe acute respiratory syndrome
>>>> coronavirus 2. Furthermore, there are some studies showing antiviral
>>>> effects of ivermectin against DNA viruses such as Equine herpes type 1, BK
>>>> polyomavirus, pseudorabies, porcine circovirus 2, and bovine herpesvirus 1.
>>>> Ivermmust beectin plays a role in several biological mechanisms, therefore
>>>> it could serve as a potential candidate in the treatment of a wide range of
>>>> viruses including COVID-19 as well as other types of positive-sense
>>>> single-stranded RNA viruses. In vivo studies of animal models revealed a
>>>> broad range of antiviral effects of ivermectin, however, clinical trials
>>>> are necessary to appraise the potential efficacy of ivermectin in clinical
>>>> setting
>>>>
>>>
>>> The quick read is that ivermectin interferes with viral reproduction *in
>>> vitro*, but fails to work *in vivo*, for all of these viruses.  It's
>>> been tried against every virus that's turned up in the last 50 years, had
>>> some *in vitro* anti-viral activity, but never became an approved
>>> treatment for any of them.
>>>
>>> It must be that the elites are consipring.  That's the only reasonable
>>> explanation for the facts.
>>>
>>> -- rec --
>>>
>>> On Sun, Aug 15, 2021 at 2:28 AM Pieter Steenekamp <
>>> pieters at randcontrols.co.za> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Nick,
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for pointing out that my message is not very clear. Let me
>>>> rewrite it with a change in wording, I hope it's better this time.
>>>>
>>>> I believe that the study that Marcus referred to above ,
>>>> https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2021-08-11/ivermectin-no-effect-covid   ,
>>>> is most probably correct.
>>>>
>>>> Help me if I'm wrong. It proves that according to a specific protocol,
>>>> there are no benefits against covid  in using ivermectin. Does that mean
>>>> that there are no other prophylaxis protocols that include ivermectin that
>>>> do give benefits?
>>>>
>>>> I'd like to make sense of what's happening in India. According to some
>>>> (see references below), the use of ivermectin is effective against covid in
>>>> India. I really don't know how reliable these sources are. Does anyone have
>>>> better information? I'd like to know.
>>>>
>>>> References:
>>>> https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/india/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> https://assets.researchsquare.com/files/rs-208785/v1/d6ff79a3-d354-4aba-a6b0-4bc123bbd225.pdf
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> https://stuartbramhall.wordpress.com/2021/04/29/when-india-stopped-prescribing-ivermectin-and-started-vaccinating-deaths-shot-up/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> https://nonvenipacem.com/2021/07/31/india-crushed-covid-using-ivermectin-and-you-can-too/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2021/05/elites-worried-covid-cases-india-plummet-government-promotes-ivermectin-hydroxychloroquine-use/
>>>>
>>>> Pieter
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, 14 Aug 2021 at 23:13, <thompnickson2 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Pieter
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Did you perhaps leave out a link?  Which study?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Nick Thompson
>>>>>
>>>>> ThompNickSon2 at gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> *From:* Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com> *On Behalf Of *Pieter
>>>>> Steenekamp
>>>>> *Sent:* Saturday, August 14, 2021 12:09 PM
>>>>> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <
>>>>> friam at redfish.com>
>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] ivermectin, nope
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I believe this study is most probably correct.
>>>>>
>>>>> Help me if I'm wrong. It proves that according to a specific protocol,
>>>>> there are no benefits against covid  in using ivermectin. Does that mean
>>>>> that there are no other prophylaxis protocols that include ivermectin that
>>>>> do give benefits?
>>>>>
>>>>> I'd like to make sense of what's happening in India. According to some
>>>>> (see reference below), the use of ivermectin is effective against covid in
>>>>> India. I really don't know how reliable these sources are. Does anyone have
>>>>> better information? I'd like to know.
>>>>>
>>>>> References:
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/india/
>>>>>
>>>>> https://assets.researchsquare.com/files/rs-208785/v1/d6ff79a3-d354-4aba-a6b0-4bc123bbd225.pdf
>>>>>
>>>>> https://stuartbramhall.wordpress.com/2021/04/29/when-india-stopped-prescribing-ivermectin-and-started-vaccinating-deaths-shot-up/
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> https://nonvenipacem.com/2021/07/31/india-crushed-covid-using-ivermectin-and-you-can-too/
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2021/05/elites-worried-covid-cases-india-plummet-government-promotes-ivermectin-hydroxychloroquine-use/
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Pieter
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, 14 Aug 2021 at 17:34, Marcus Daniels <marcus at snoutfarm.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2021-08-11/ivermectin-no-effect-covid
>>>>>
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