[FRIAM] "ZAMM"

Thu Aug 19 16:16:23 EDT 2021

Nick -

I read it when it was fairly new and I was very young.   The interwebs
(I mean, whatever vapid popular culture rode on top of in those days)
was aflutter and I was a voracious reader, a motorcycle
owner/rider/maintainer, and I was enamored of the idea of eastern
mysticism in spite of the harsh and distorting filters Western pop
culture shoved it through before it could get to me.  So of course i
read it.  And of course I was disappointed.

I was hugely disappointed and annoyed by Pirsig/Phaedrus.   I did not
ride motorcycles for the reasons or in the way he did, nor did I
maintain mine in his fashion nor did I hold it up in the way he did.  Of
course, Pirsig (and his character) were somewhat older than I was and
had had more time in life to F* up...   he just seemed like a
self-indulgent F*-up to me, dragging his son through the worst of it
along with him.    I was also offended by all the hubub about the
book... for the most part I "just didn't get it".   It just seemed like
more of our pop-culture's need to elevate a quite base neopatriarchy:
(e.g. Hemingway, Kerouac, HS Thompson, Abbey, etc)

When Mary moved here about 4 years ago, we (re)read ZAMM together.  In
the intervening years I had learned a lot more about mental illness
including having direct experience with people who had endured a great
deal of it, up to and including Electroshock Therapy.   I had also grown
out of my motorcycle riding identity (in my 50s) but still held onto
fetishizing the spirit of something as simple and "easy" to maintain as
a (classic) motorcycle (or auto).   I had also read a lot more Greek
(and other Western/Eastern) Philosophy in the intervening years and had
my own ideas about "Quality" including Christopher Alexander's ineffable
"Quality Without a Name".

I appreciated ZAMM/Pirsig/Phaedrus a lot more the second time but still
felt like it was somewhat self-indulgent.  To the extent that I know of
Pirsig's subsequent unfolding of a life (including his son's death) I
felt more sympathetic to what I had judged as F*up.  It also helps that
I went on to F* up my own life repeatedly and sometimes even recursively
(yet I am still here, being self-indulgent and judgemental).

this was a nice obituary blog entry:

https://douglastoft.com/robert-pirsig-on-coming-to-terms-with-the-death-of-his-son/

Another couple of (re) reads we did together were:

    Moby Dick

    A Day in the Life of Ivan Denisovich

On 8/19/21 1:46 PM, thompnickson2 at gmail.com wrote:
>
> Dave:
>
>  
>
> As usual, my [conscious] motives were not so high falutin’.  As usual
> I am trying to get others to think with me because I cannot think
> alone.  To the extent that I am a philosopher, it probably is because
> of that book and I am really interesting in the role it played in the
> lives of others.   For instance, one friend told me that his response
> was to go out and buy a motor cycle.  Also I am interested in what a
> second reading, 40 plus years would be like for each of you.  It was
> quite a revelation to me.    So, as general, you give my conscious
> mind too much credit.  I can’t speak for the unconscious one. 
>
>  
>
> Stephen,
>
>  
>
> If you mean, the original Greek figure, no I don’t.  He’s briefly
> described somewhere in zamm as a sophist, but that’s already more than
> I know. 
>
>  
>
> N
>
>  
>
> Nick Thompson
>
> ThompNickSon2 at gmail.com <mailto:ThompNickSon2 at gmail.com>
>
> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/
> <https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/>
>
>  
>
> *From:* Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com> *On Behalf Of *Stephen Guerin
> *Sent:* Thursday, August 19, 2021 3:26 PM
> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
> <friam at redfish.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] "ZAMM"
>
>  
>
> Nick, 
>
>  
>
> do you know Phaedrus? 
>
>  
>
> On Wed, Aug 18, 2021, 7:46 PM <thompnickson2 at gmail.com
> <mailto:thompnickson2 at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>     Colleagues,
>
>      
>
>     I wonder if Pirsig’s /Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance
>     /was a thing for any of you, and if you would be interested in
>     pursuing a thread about it and, if so, if you would be willing to
>     get it down off your shelf and flip through it, looking for the
>     parts you loved and the parts you hated. 
>
>      
>
>     N
>
>      
>
>     Nick Thompson
>
>     ThompNickSon2 at gmail.com <mailto:ThompNickSon2 at gmail.com>
>
>     https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/
>     <https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/>
>
>      
>
>     - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. .
>     FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
>     Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6  bit.ly/virtualfriam
>     <http://bit.ly/virtualfriam>
>     un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
>     <http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com>
>     FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/
>     <http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/>
>     archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/
>     <http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/>
>
>
> - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. .
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6  bit.ly/virtualfriam
> un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/
> archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/attachments/20210819/147bcaf4/attachment.html>