[FRIAM] civil war(s)

Wed Mar 10 21:35:18 EST 2021

Yeah, Oregon will do that to you.

-- rec --

On Wed, Mar 10, 2021 at 7:56 PM Marcus Daniels <marcus at snoutfarm.com> wrote:

> Ok, I admit it.   Some part of my reptile brain is confused when I see BLM
> signs, because it hashes to the other thing.. for developmental reasons, I
> guess.
>
>
>
> *From:* Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com> *On Behalf Of *Steve Smith
> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 10, 2021 4:18 PM
> *To:* friam at redfish.com
> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] civil war(s)
>
>
>
> I live on Bundy Lane (100 meters long, with three other households) off of
> NM 502 and when I give directions to the house I describe it as "Bundy Lane
> as in Al or Ted" but have had to add "or Ammon and Cliven"  to be more
> current.   In another decade I hope none of those references mean anything.
>
> Yes, there is an element of "chumming" among all the "spinning" and
> "churning".   I also liked Glen's usage of "spinning" with "Wing Nuts"  a
> while back... if Doug were still with us, he'd probably throw in some
> off-color reference to "Spinners" as well.  The boon/bane of metaphor I
> suppose.
>
>
>
> On 3/10/21 4:41 PM, Roger Critchlow wrote:
>
> Or chumming, as in throwing bloody fish in the water to attract sharks.
>
>
>
> I read BLM protests on first scan as a reference to the Bundy stand-off,
> per Wikipedia:
>
>
>
> The 2014 *Bundy standoff* was an armed confrontation between supporters
> of cattle rancher Cliven Bundy
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cliven_Bundy> and law enforcement
> following a 21-year legal dispute in which the United States Bureau of
> Land Management <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bureau_of_Land_Management> (BLM)
> obtained court orders directing Bundy to pay over $1 million in withheld grazing
> fees <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grazing_fees#United_States> for
> Bundy's use of federally owned land adjacent to Bundy's ranch in
> southeastern Nevada <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nevada>.
>
>
>
> Just another note on the hazards of acronyms.  Especially with erratic
> memories involved.
>
>
>
> -- rec --
>
>
>
> On Wed, Mar 10, 2021 at 3:28 PM Steve Smith <sasmyth at swcp.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> Not speaking for Nick, *I* think politics (vs statesmanship) are at the
> very *least* _rhetorical_.   I believe rhetoric often includes direct
> deceit.  A great deal of politics in the US today (maybe forever) is
> acutely deceitful, even when it isn't attack-oriented.  One party is
> significantly more bold than the other in that regard.  DaveW may invert
> the sense of that judgement, but probably agrees that deceptive rhetoric is
> a mainstay in politics.
>
> I think the "Civil War" metaphor isn't just deceitful, it is intentionally
> provocative and deeply disingenuous.  My personal opinion is that the angry
> Right Mob and the Puppeteers yanking their strings wants a *literal* Civil
> War so that they can exercise their superior firepower and brutality to
> obtain/retain singular minority rule over a growing majority coalition of
> minorities.   I think the rhetoric of the last year from that quarter
> trying to imply that the LEFT was on the verge of starting a hot Civil War
> if they "didn't get their way" was more projection, and intended to create
> a certain amount of cover and/or precedent for the type of coup attempt we
> saw on December 37th and the acute threats of violence from the right that
> has been bubbling for a very long time.
>
> Perhaps "Cold Civil War" is more apt and less suggestive of
> endorsing/tolerating violence as a means.
>
> Even the most violent of BLM and related protests did not aspire to
> overthrow government or reverse an election.   While their attempts to hold
> law enforcement accountable in response to specific recent incidents (it is
> not a small list) and systemic abuses might have risen above a threshold of
> violence that many of us might approve, the movement was NOT about
> disenfranchising anyone except the very public servants who are supposed to
> work for us ("Protect and Serve").
>
> All that said, I'm not unsympathetic with the resentments "the common man"
> has against their elected Representatives in our Republic, but any rhetoric
> that suggests that the Left is worse than the Right is acutely
> disingenuous.
>
> Regarding the term "spin"...  I *do* think it is apt in the sense of
> "making your head spin" but I think the metaphor of "churn" is yet more apt
> in the sense that a great deal of the point seems to be to generate lots of
> obfuscation by conflation.   Muddying the waters...
>
> - Steve
>
>
>
> That's because you think politics is essentially deceitful?
>
>
>
> -- rec --
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Mar 10, 2021 at 1:59 PM <thompnickson2 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I always thought the metaphor was to a web of deceit.
>
> n
>
>
>
> Nick Thompson
>
> ThompNickSon2 at gmail.com
>
> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/
>
>
>
> *From:* Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com> *On Behalf Of *Roger Critchlow
> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 10, 2021 12:53 PM
> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <
> friam at redfish.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] civil war(s)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Mar 9, 2021 at 3:34 PM Prof David West <profwest at fastmail.fm>
> wrote:
>
> schisms might be a better metaphor than civil war.
>
> you are correct that there is, and always has been, "churn" among factions
> within both parties and any significance given to a particular instance of
> that churn e.g GOPS taking committee assignments away from a flake or the
> Nevada state party instance — originate in the mind of the one pointing at
> the event rather than intrinsic to the event itself. One reason that I find
> most political headlines to be examples of wishful thinking rather than
> communicators of significance.
>
> davew
>
>
>
> Second that, it's why they call it spin, cause it makes your head spin if
> you pay too much attention.
>
>
>
> -- rec --
>
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