[FRIAM] civil war(s)

[Marcus Daniels]

Ok, I admit it.   Some part of my reptile brain is confused when I see BLM signs, because it hashes to the other thing.. for developmental reasons, I guess.

From: Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com> On Behalf Of Steve Smith
Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2021 4:18 PM
To: friam at redfish.com
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] civil war(s)


I live on Bundy Lane (100 meters long, with three other households) off of NM 502 and when I give directions to the house I describe it as "Bundy Lane as in Al or Ted" but have had to add "or Ammon and Cliven"  to be more current.   In another decade I hope none of those references mean anything.

Yes, there is an element of "chumming" among all the "spinning" and "churning".   I also liked Glen's usage of "spinning" with "Wing Nuts"  a while back... if Doug were still with us, he'd probably throw in some off-color reference to "Spinners" as well.  The boon/bane of metaphor I suppose.


On 3/10/21 4:41 PM, Roger Critchlow wrote:
Or chumming, as in throwing bloody fish in the water to attract sharks.

I read BLM protests on first scan as a reference to the Bundy stand-off, per Wikipedia:

The 2014 Bundy standoff was an armed confrontation between supporters of cattle rancher Cliven Bundy<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cliven_Bundy> and law enforcement following a 21-year legal dispute in which the United States Bureau of Land Management<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bureau_of_Land_Management> (BLM) obtained court orders directing Bundy to pay over $1 million in withheld grazing fees<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grazing_fees#United_States> for Bundy's use of federally owned land adjacent to Bundy's ranch in southeastern Nevada<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nevada>.

Just another note on the hazards of acronyms.  Especially with erratic memories involved.

-- rec --

On Wed, Mar 10, 2021 at 3:28 PM Steve Smith <sasmyth at swcp.com<mailto:sasmyth at swcp.com>> wrote:



Not speaking for Nick, *I* think politics (vs statesmanship) are at the very *least* _rhetorical_.   I believe rhetoric often includes direct deceit.  A great deal of politics in the US today (maybe forever) is acutely deceitful, even when it isn't attack-oriented.  One party is significantly more bold than the other in that regard.  DaveW may invert the sense of that judgement, but probably agrees that deceptive rhetoric is a mainstay in politics.

I think the "Civil War" metaphor isn't just deceitful, it is intentionally provocative and deeply disingenuous.  My personal opinion is that the angry Right Mob and the Puppeteers yanking their strings wants a *literal* Civil War so that they can exercise their superior firepower and brutality to obtain/retain singular minority rule over a growing majority coalition of minorities.   I think the rhetoric of the last year from that quarter trying to imply that the LEFT was on the verge of starting a hot Civil War if they "didn't get their way" was more projection, and intended to create a certain amount of cover and/or precedent for the type of coup attempt we saw on December 37th and the acute threats of violence from the right that has been bubbling for a very long time.

Perhaps "Cold Civil War" is more apt and less suggestive of endorsing/tolerating violence as a means.

Even the most violent of BLM and related protests did not aspire to overthrow government or reverse an election.   While their attempts to hold law enforcement accountable in response to specific recent incidents (it is not a small list) and systemic abuses might have risen above a threshold of violence that many of us might approve, the movement was NOT about disenfranchising anyone except the very public servants who are supposed to work for us ("Protect and Serve").

All that said, I'm not unsympathetic with the resentments "the common man" has against their elected Representatives in our Republic, but any rhetoric that suggests that the Left is worse than the Right is acutely disingenuous.

Regarding the term "spin"...  I *do* think it is apt in the sense of "making your head spin" but I think the metaphor of "churn" is yet more apt in the sense that a great deal of the point seems to be to generate lots of obfuscation by conflation.   Muddying the waters...

- Steve


That's because you think politics is essentially deceitful?

-- rec --


On Wed, Mar 10, 2021 at 1:59 PM <thompnickson2 at gmail.com<mailto:thompnickson2 at gmail.com>> wrote:
I always thought the metaphor was to a web of deceit.
n

Nick Thompson
ThompNickSon2 at gmail.com<mailto:ThompNickSon2 at gmail.com>
https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/

From: Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com<mailto:friam-bounces at redfish.com>> On Behalf Of Roger Critchlow
Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2021 12:53 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <friam at redfish.com<mailto:friam at redfish.com>>
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] civil war(s)



On Tue, Mar 9, 2021 at 3:34 PM Prof David West <profwest at fastmail.fm<mailto:profwest at fastmail.fm>> wrote:
schisms might be a better metaphor than civil war.

you are correct that there is, and always has been, "churn" among factions within both parties and any significance given to a particular instance of that churn e.g GOPS taking committee assignments away from a flake or the Nevada state party instance — originate in the mind of the one pointing at the event rather than intrinsic to the event itself. One reason that I find most political headlines to be examples of wishful thinking rather than communicators of significance.

davew

Second that, it's why they call it spin, cause it makes your head spin if you pay too much attention.

-- rec --
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