[FRIAM] The case for universal basic income UBI

Tue May 4 23:13:10 EDT 2021

Well we can *imagine  *both. Problem is actually getting either one.

On Tue, May 4, 2021 at 9:05 PM Gary Schiltz <gary at naturesvisualarts.com>
wrote:

> It's hard to imagine UBI in the United States, when you (we, before I
> left) can't even get a universal health care system.
>
> On Tue, May 4, 2021 at 6:47 PM Gillian Densmore <gil.densmore at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> We have a globe getting pimp slapped by a virus. People getting shit
>> canned for no other reason than breathing. WAstate and one other was/is
>> back to full lockdown, Canada still is.
>> The question isn't reely is UBI a good/bad idea but how fucking fast do
>> we make it happen? and for how much. I'd submit that a UBI musti be at 70k
>> a year min, and tied to the trust costs of living and inflation. That's 30
>> an hour and the low end of 'upper middle clast' from the 80s. Plus a bit
>> for savings and fun.
>>
>> Probably should be pegged at the true costs of living for the most
>> expensive place in the US to live, for a house hold of 3. So that a lot of
>> people are covered. Because as is how many people are paycheck to paycheck
>> for no other reason than luck? a lot. between lobyests, a fucking toxic why
>> should we mediacrity penny ante mentality min wage was and is still
>> contorted to the least we can legall get away with. We call that
>> wage-slavery. So good chance that someone who gets  a 5k a month check
>> would then be able to pay off  debts. Invest in some stocks and themselves.
>> IMO that sounds fucking amazing to me.
>> San Franciscos costs of living, true costs of living waaay the F back in
>> the 90s was 80k a year. it's now about 200k. As reported by any source
>> thats reputable, and yet wages their haven't gone up more than 9.75-12 an
>> hour. A single room BRM appartment their at 15% bellow average market rate
>> can easily average 2k a month.
>> As it is now a single person just would not be able to afford that.
>> Ergo UBI would keep them housed.
>>
>> Some massively large percent of the 30+ generation right now can't even
>> save,, have to work 2+ jobs. Go make conversation with anyone at Smiths. a
>> lot of those people have to work 3 jobs.  Why should UBI be a question? the
>> reel question must be not if, but when, and how much.
>>
>> On Tue, May 4, 2021 at 5:27 PM Gillian Densmore <gil.densmore at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> The simplest case for a UBI is current and past pandemics.  Simply put
>>> that for some asinine reason our sense of maslow's hierarchy of needs has
>>> gone tits up fucked.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, May 4, 2021 at 5:23 PM Frank Wimberly <wimberly3 at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> A couple of facts that relate to some of the points raised.
>>>>
>>>> I was following a car that had a bumper sticker that said, "Eat the
>>>> Rich".
>>>>
>>>> A man paid $50 million for a penthouse (5 story) in Manhattan.  He
>>>> committed suicide when he couldn't sell it for $35 million.  His wife
>>>> wanted to live where she could have horses.  If anyone cares i can tell you
>>>> who he was.
>>>>
>>>> ---
>>>> Frank C. Wimberly
>>>> 140 Calle Ojo Feliz,
>>>> Santa Fe, NM 87505
>>>>
>>>> 505 670-9918
>>>> Santa Fe, NM
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, May 4, 2021, 3:42 PM uǝlƃ ↙↙↙ <gepropella at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Yeah, I agree. But as the miscommunication about the dimension of
>>>>> simplices vs. orthogonal dimensionality seems to indicate, reduction need
>>>>> not imply linearity, and if reduction is used iteratively to discover
>>>>> interestingness, that provenance/method/algorithm need not be lost (1st
>>>>> order Markovian). A practical example might be
>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Projection_pursuit
>>>>>
>>>>> Like abstraction <-> concretization, there's de-objectification that's
>>>>> part of a complete skill set. Competent objectifiers retain enough history
>>>>> to at least approximate the starting point.
>>>>>
>>>>> On 5/4/21 1:37 PM, jon zingale wrote:
>>>>> > """
>>>>> > Reduction is a triumph if it captures what you're looking for.
>>>>> > """
>>>>> >
>>>>> > When reductions capture what one is looking for then the resulting
>>>>> > categories
>>>>> > make for powerful rhetoric. IMO, it is exactly that reductions to
>>>>> crisp
>>>>> > objects
>>>>> > capture what *some* want, while obfuscating the desired objects of
>>>>> others,
>>>>> > that
>>>>> > makes the whole reduction-objectification game so insidious in
>>>>> practice (a
>>>>> > kind
>>>>> > of conceptual imperialism?). Sometimes objects can be presented with
>>>>> such
>>>>> > clarity
>>>>> > and precision that it becomes difficult to imagine any others, to
>>>>> dislodge
>>>>> > unproductive beliefs or practices, or to remember that the objects
>>>>> are
>>>>> > fantastic
>>>>> > shorthands.
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> ↙↙↙ uǝlƃ
>>>>>
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