[FRIAM] “Don’t they have grandchildren?” was The case for universal basic income UBI

Sat May 22 14:54:17 EDT 2021

Dear Russ, 

Nothing worse than the elderly citing themselves, but what alternatives do I have?  

By the way, in this case “genetic out come” refers neither to “the genes” in general or to “benefits to the species” but to the specific competition between the “genefur” supporting collective action and the “genefur” individually directed action.  Thus, for the article to make sense to you, you already have to believe in “genesfur”.   As you know, I have worried with increasing frequency about the possibility of “genesfur”.  How do you get fur on a gene, anyway?

Nick Thompson

 <mailto:ThompNickSon2 at gmail.com> ThompNickSon2 at gmail.com

 <https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/

From: Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com> On Behalf Of Russ Abbott
Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2021 2:26 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <friam at redfish.com>
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] “Don’t they have grandchildren?” was The case for universal basic income UBI

Glen is right. I was quoting McKibbon writing about Weintrobe. Of course I did that because I thought that see made an important point. Here's the extract again.

 "Weintrobe writes that people’s psyches are divided into caring and uncaring parts, and the conflict between them “is at the heart of great literature down the ages, and all major religions.” The uncaring part wants to put ourselves first; it’s the narcissistic corners of the brain that persuade each of us that we are uniquely important and deserving, and make us want to except ourselves from the rules that society or morality set so that we can have what we want. “Most people’s caring self is strong enough to hold their inner exception in check,” she notes, but, troublingly, “ours is the Golden Age of Exceptionalism.”  ...

 I found this interesting because it related back to our earlier discussion of reciprocity. If it is in our nature to have these two warring parts of our psyches, there is probably no hope that the "caring part" will ever fully triumph over the "uncaring part" and reliably hold the uncaring part in check. Presumably, this has to do with evolution and the need for both parts for successful long-term survival of a species.

If you buy that, and I think it's right, then what kind of society can be constructed of organisms with these two components that drive their behavior? That's the question we've been struggling with both in this discussion and over the ages. The answer presumably has to do with as much freedom as possible but freedom reigned in by enforced rules that prevent our uncaring parts from destroying that society. 

The neoliberalism discussion has to do with the observation that our society has been moving in the direction of giving the uncaring parts too much power. 

-- Russ Abbott                                       
Professor, Computer Science
California State University, Los Angeles

On Sat, May 22, 2021 at 6:42 AM Pieter Steenekamp <pieters at randcontrols.co.za <mailto:pieters at randcontrols.co.za> > wrote:

Thank you DaveW, I support this!

On Sat, 22 May 2021 at 04:53, Prof David West <profwest at fastmail.fm <mailto:profwest at fastmail.fm> > wrote:

What started the problem (at least in the West)"

"Then God said, “Let us make humankind in our image, according to our likeness; and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the wild animals of the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps upon the earth.” [Christian Bible]

Potential way out:

Those who have taken upon them to lay down the law of nature as a thing already searched out and understood, whether they have spoken in simple assurance or professional affectation, have therein done philosophy and the sciences great injury. For as they have been successful in inducing belief, so they have been effective in quenching and stopping inquiry; and have done more harm by spoiling and putting an end to other men's efforts than good by their own. Those on the other hand who have taken a contrary course, and asserted that absolutely nothing can be known — whether it were from hatred of the ancient sophists, or from uncertainty and fluctuation of mind, or even from a kind of fullness of learning, that they fell upon this opinion — have certainly advanced reasons for it that are not to be despised; but yet they have neither started from true principles nor rested in the just conclusion, zeal and affectation having carried them much too far... [Sir Francis Bacon]

davew

On Fri, May 21, 2021, at 4:21 PM, Frank Wimberly wrote:

Sorry.  I admire your memory.

---

Frank C. Wimberly

140 Calle Ojo Feliz, 

Santa Fe, NM 87505

505 670-9918

Santa Fe, NM

On Fri, May 21, 2021, 3:11 PM uǝlƃ ↙↙↙ <gepropella at gmail.com <mailto:gepropella at gmail.com> > wrote:

Only about 100,000 times. >8^D The trick is whether or not you believe that sort of modeling is mechanistic or *merely* generative.

On 5/21/21 2:08 PM, Frank Wimberly wrote:

> Did I already post this here?

> 

> 

> https://www.researchgate.net/publication/228446085_Simulation_validation_using_Causal_Inference_Theory_with_morphological_constraints#fullTextFileContent <https://www.researchgate.net/publication/228446085_Simulation_validation_using_Causal_Inference_Theory_with_morphological_constraints#fullTextFileContent>

> ---

-- 

↙↙↙ uǝlƃ

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