[FRIAM] Newborn Heart Rate
Steve Smith
sasmyth at swcp.com
Sat Oct 2 14:54:10 EDT 2021
NST -
DAWW is perhaps it's own version of the nail or stone in a communal
"soup". Or a potherb, providing limited but possibly critical
nutrition to an otherwise bland and macronutrient-only stew?
- SAS
On 10/2/21 10:56 AM, thompnickson2 at gmail.com wrote:
>
> Colleagues,
>
>
>
> I am appealing for help with a paradox. On the one hand there is this
> well known concept of a category error, an insult that has great force
> in some domains of thought; on the other hand, there is probability
> theory, calculus, etc., which involves (to my eye) the same
> equivocation, but on which we have relied for the great practical
> achievements of our time. Is the analogy between the two not apt? If
> it is apt, then we have the paradox of vicious and virtuous category
> errors.
>
>
>
> For those of you who think I am just dicking about with words here,
> let me concede that there is such an evil. However, you must
> recognize that sometimes great gaps in our thinking are discovered by
> people dicking about with words. Since DAWW is all I am really
> capable of at my advanced age – indeed, perhaps EVER have been capable
> of-- it is what I have to throw in the pot. You might help me
> distinguish between vicious DAWW and virtuous DAWW. You might exile
> me. But you probably won’t get me to stop.
>
>
>
> [sigh]
>
>
>
>
>
> Nick Thompson, Doctor of DAWW.
>
> ThompNickSon2 at gmail.com <mailto:ThompNickSon2 at gmail.com>
>
> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/
> <https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/>
>
>
>
> *From:* Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com> *On Behalf Of *Frank Wimberly
> *Sent:* Saturday, October 2, 2021 12:28 PM
> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
> <friam at redfish.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] Newborn Heart Rate
>
>
>
> Perhaps. But in the meantime people who believe in and use concepts
> like derivatives, integrals, position, velocity, momentum, energy,
> etc. send probes to the moons of Jupiter and beyond. But I guess you
> dismiss that with the same argument with which you dismiss nuclear
> reactor design using probabilities.
>
>
>
> Frenemy? You ain't seen nothing unless you've had a teenage daughter
> recently.
>
>
>
> Frank
>
>
>
>
>
> ---
> Frank C. Wimberly
> 140 Calle Ojo Feliz,
> Santa Fe, NM 87505
>
> 505 670-9918
> Santa Fe, NM
>
>
>
> On Sat, Oct 2, 2021, 10:17 AM <thompnickson2 at gmail.com
> <mailto:thompnickson2 at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> Dear Frank,
>
>
>
> As I say, it boils down to a question of who controls the meaning
> of velocity. Now we can, of course, have different realms of
> discourse where velocity means one thing to you and another to me,
> so long as we are very clear and do not equivocate about which
> meaning we are using. The problem is, of course, that in the
> discourse I am most familiar with, equivocation goes on all the
> time. Now there might be an interesting line of argument where
> you assert that “the limit of the ratio of distance to time as
> time approaches 0” is exactly what the “common man” means by
> velocity. He doesn’t quite have those words for it, but as the
> car is hurtling down on him standing in the middle of the road and
> he says that car is coming FAST, he is interested in the
> instantaneous motion (whatever that could possibly be!) of the
> car. I think that is wrong. I think he is interested in whether
> the car is going to cover the distance between itself and him
> before he covers the distance between him and the edge of the
> road, but perhaps there is a sense in which the instantaneous
> velocity is used to bridge from his perception of the motion of
> the car in the last second to his perception of it’s motion in the
> next few. Thus he uses a kind of abduction to reach a category we
> call “the velocity of the car” and from that category deduces the
> time of arrival of the car at his point in the road. This idea …
> that we use experience to make up useful fictions -- aka
> “categories, essences, reals, etc.”-- from which we then infer
> events is a newish one to me and I want to think about it more.
> Somehow, to assert that all categories, all “generals” are
> fictions seems right to me right now. If we are to arrive at the
> place where all categories are fictions then we must have a way to
> distinguish between virtuous and vicious fictions. And not just
> the Jamesian way.
>
>
>
> But, Frenemy Frank, you must recognize the absurdity you have let
> yourself in for when you write dualist non-sense such as “This is
> theoretical and approximates what happens in the physical world.”
>
>
>
> There is no moment when we know the world. To use your language,
> all we know is our theories of the world. The world divides out
> of the equation. We are in the businesses of prediction future
> experience from past experience and the world plays no part in
> that business */except as theory/*.
>
>
>
> N
>
> Nick Thompson
>
> ThompNickSon2 at gmail.com <mailto:ThompNickSon2 at gmail.com>
>
> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/
> <https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/>
>
>
>
> *From:* Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com
> <mailto:friam-bounces at redfish.com>> *On Behalf Of *Frank Wimberly
> *Sent:* Saturday, October 2, 2021 10:37 AM
> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
> <friam at redfish.com <mailto:friam at redfish.com>>
> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] Newborn Heart Rate
>
>
>
> Velocity is the derivative of location with respect to time. In
> three-space it's a three component vector as is location.
>
>
>
> In freshman physics at Carnegie Tech we studied these concepts
> with strobe lights, cameras, and frictionless (almost) pucks.
>
>
>
> Frank
>
> ---
> Frank C. Wimberly
> 140 Calle Ojo Feliz,
> Santa Fe, NM 87505
>
> 505 670-9918
> Santa Fe, NM
>
>
>
> On Sat, Oct 2, 2021, 8:29 AM <thompnickson2 at gmail.com
> <mailto:thompnickson2 at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> Frank,
>
>
>
> Well, as usual, it’s a question of who get’s the words. In
> the world in which I was raised a velocity is a change in
> position over a change in time. No change in distance, no
> velocity. Velocity at an instant is a mathematical fabulation
> in the same way that wanting at an instant is a fabulation.
> My problem as a “thinker” is that I want to dismiss the
> latter, but I cannot dismiss the former.
>
> N
>
>
>
> Nick Thompson
>
> ThompNickSon2 at gmail.com <mailto:ThompNickSon2 at gmail.com>
>
> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/
> <https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/>
>
>
>
> *From:* Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com
> <mailto:friam-bounces at redfish.com>> *On Behalf Of *Frank Wimberly
> *Sent:* Friday, October 1, 2021 10:01 PM
> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
> <friam at redfish.com <mailto:friam at redfish.com>>
> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] Newborn Heart Rate
>
>
>
> Nick, i hope this helps. Given a fair die that hasn't been
> thrown the probability that it will come up 2 (or any of the
> other particular values) on the next throw is 1/6 by
> definition of fair. Given that it has been thrown and ceterus
> paribus the a posteriori probability that it shows 2 given
> that it does is 1.0. In that case the probabilities of each
> of the other values is 0.0.
>
>
>
> The acceleration of an object with constant velocity is 0.0.
> If the velocity is changing the acceleration is the
> instantaneous change in velocity the knowledge of which is
> limited by the ability to measure that. The acceleration of
> an object whose velocity is described by a closed form
> mathematical function is the derivative of that function as we
> learned in calculus. The derivative is defined by limits.
> This is theoretical and approximates what happens in the
> physical world.
>
>
>
> Questions and comments are welcome.
>
>
>
> Frank
>
>
>
>
>
> ---
> Frank C. Wimberly
> 140 Calle Ojo Feliz,
> Santa Fe, NM 87505
>
> 505 670-9918
> Santa Fe, NM
>
>
>
> On Fri, Oct 1, 2021, 7:21 PM <thompnickson2 at gmail.com
> <mailto:thompnickson2 at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> I thought the conversation about probability, category
> errors, and crossing boundaries between levels of
> organization was interesting and I was sorry I had to
> leave it. I want to say that to speak a die as having a
> probability of 1/6 of coming up 6 on a single throw is a
> category error because it is not a property that can be
> displayed on a single throw. It’s the same worry that I
> have often deployed about the calculus. If we take the
> idea of a category error seriously, then acceleration is
> just not the sort of thing an object can have at an
> instant. But just as clearly as this argument is too
> strong – lots of very nice longstanding bridges have been
> built with the calculus – so the argument is also too
> strong with respect to probability – lots of nice atom
> bombs have been built with probability theory … or
> something.
>
>
>
> I care about this because my standard account of such
> concepts as “wanting” is that they are properties of the
> population of responses to an object, not properties of
> any one of those responses. We encounter the same
> problem with anecdotes and newspaper photographs designed
> to illustrate some general fact. If the generally fact is
> that “very few of the immigrants at the southern border
> are well treated” a single photograph looking peaked or
> hungry is irrelevant. Equally irrelevant would be a
> picture of a bright eyed kid sitting in the lap of a
> border patrol officer eating a hot-fudge sundae.
>
>
>
> This makes me wonder about one of the foundations of
> psychological research, the statistics of inference, which
> I think Peirce invented. Let a coin be thrown 10 times
> and each time come up heads. What I think Peirce would
> have me conclude is that that coin is unlikely to be drawn
> from a population of fair throws of a fair coin. But, of
> coure, what we are likely to conclude is that “this coin
> is not fair.” But that could be as misguided, couldn’t
> it, as concluding that the kid in the lap of the border
> patrol officers is being mistreated.
>
>
>
> I apologize, once more, for sharing my comfusions with you.
>
>
>
> n
>
>
>
> Nick Thompson
>
> ThompNickSon2 at gmail.com <mailto:ThompNickSon2 at gmail.com>
>
> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/
> <https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/>
>
>
>
> *From:* Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com
> <mailto:friam-bounces at redfish.com>> *On Behalf Of *Frank
> Wimberly
> *Sent:* Friday, October 1, 2021 6:46 PM
> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
> <friam at redfish.com <mailto:friam at redfish.com>>
> *Subject:* [FRIAM] Newborn Heart Rate
>
>
>
>
> https://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/61/1/119
> <https://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/61/1/119>
>
>
>
> This is for those who attended this morning's vFriam
> meeting. I was Schachter's colleague, among a couple of
> others.
>
>
>
>
>
> ---
> Frank C. Wimberly
> 140 Calle Ojo Feliz,
> Santa Fe, NM 87505
>
> 505 670-9918
> Santa Fe, NM
>
>
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