[FRIAM] Newborn Heart Rate

Frank Wimberly wimberly3 at gmail.com
Sat Oct 2 18:59:07 EDT 2021 

Who wants you to stop?

---
Frank C. Wimberly
140 Calle Ojo Feliz,
Santa Fe, NM 87505

505 670-9918
Santa Fe, NM

On Sat, Oct 2, 2021, 10:59 AM <thompnickson2 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Colleagues,
>
>
>
> I am appealing for help with a paradox.  On the one hand there is this
> well known concept of a category error, an insult that has great force in
> some domains of thought; on the other hand, there is probability theory,
> calculus, etc., which involves (to my eye) the same equivocation, but on
> which we have relied for the great practical achievements of our time.  Is
> the analogy between the two not apt?  If it is apt, then we have the
> paradox of vicious and virtuous category errors.
>
>
>
> For those of you who think I am just dicking about with words here, let me
> concede that there is such an evil.  However, you must recognize that
> sometimes great gaps in our thinking are discovered by people dicking about
> with words.  Since DAWW is all I am really capable of at my advanced age –
> indeed, perhaps EVER have been capable of-- it is what I have to throw in
> the pot.   You might help me distinguish between vicious DAWW and virtuous
> DAWW.  You might exile me.  But you probably won’t get me to stop.
>
>
>
> [sigh]
>
>
>
>
>
> Nick Thompson, Doctor of DAWW.
>
> ThompNickSon2 at gmail.com
>
> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/
>
>
>
> *From:* Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com> *On Behalf Of *Frank Wimberly
> *Sent:* Saturday, October 2, 2021 12:28 PM
> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <
> friam at redfish.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] Newborn Heart Rate
>
>
>
> Perhaps. But in the meantime people who believe in and use concepts like
> derivatives, integrals, position, velocity, momentum, energy, etc. send
> probes to the moons of Jupiter and beyond.  But I guess you dismiss that
> with the same argument with which you dismiss nuclear reactor design using
> probabilities.
>
>
>
> Frenemy?  You ain't seen nothing unless you've had a teenage daughter
> recently.
>
>
>
> Frank
>
>
>
>
>
> ---
> Frank C. Wimberly
> 140 Calle Ojo Feliz,
> Santa Fe, NM 87505
>
> 505 670-9918
> Santa Fe, NM
>
>
>
> On Sat, Oct 2, 2021, 10:17 AM <thompnickson2 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Dear Frank,
>
>
>
> As I say, it boils down to a question of who controls the meaning of
> velocity.   Now we can, of course, have different realms of discourse where
> velocity means one thing to you and another to me, so long as we are very
> clear and do not equivocate about which meaning we are using.   The problem
> is, of course, that in the discourse I am most familiar with, equivocation
> goes on all the time.    Now there might be an interesting line of argument
> where you assert that “the limit of the ratio of distance to time as time
> approaches 0” is exactly what the “common man” means by velocity.  He
> doesn’t quite have those words for it, but as the car is hurtling down on
> him standing in the middle of the road and he says that car is coming FAST,
> he is interested in the instantaneous motion (whatever that could possibly
> be!) of the car.   I think that is wrong.  I think he is interested in
> whether the car is going to cover the distance between itself and him
> before he covers the distance between him and the edge of the road, but
> perhaps there is a sense in which the instantaneous velocity is used to
> bridge from his perception of the motion of the car in the last second to
> his perception of it’s motion in the next few.  Thus he uses a kind of
> abduction to reach a category we call “the velocity of the car” and from
> that category deduces the time of arrival of the car at his point in the
> road.  This idea … that we use experience to make up useful fictions -- aka
> “categories, essences, reals, etc.”-- from which we then infer events is a
> newish one to me and I want to think about it more.  Somehow, to assert
> that all categories, all “generals” are fictions seems right to me right
> now.   If we are to arrive at the place where all categories are fictions
> then we must have a way to distinguish between virtuous and vicious
> fictions.  And not just the Jamesian way.
>
>
>
> But, Frenemy Frank, you must recognize the absurdity you have let yourself
> in for when you write dualist non-sense such as “This is theoretical and
> approximates what happens in the physical world.”
>
>
>
> There is no moment when we know the world.  To use your language, all we
> know is our theories of the world.  The world divides out of the equation.
> We are in the businesses of prediction future experience from past
> experience and the world plays no part in that business *except as theory*.
>
>
>
>
> N
>
> Nick Thompson
>
> ThompNickSon2 at gmail.com
>
> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/
>
>
>
> *From:* Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com> *On Behalf Of *Frank Wimberly
> *Sent:* Saturday, October 2, 2021 10:37 AM
> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <
> friam at redfish.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] Newborn Heart Rate
>
>
>
> Velocity is the derivative of location with respect to time.  In
> three-space it's a three component vector as is location.
>
>
>
> In freshman physics at Carnegie Tech we studied these concepts with strobe
> lights, cameras, and frictionless (almost) pucks.
>
>
>
> Frank
>
> ---
> Frank C. Wimberly
> 140 Calle Ojo Feliz,
> Santa Fe, NM 87505
>
> 505 670-9918
> Santa Fe, NM
>
>
>
> On Sat, Oct 2, 2021, 8:29 AM <thompnickson2 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Frank,
>
>
>
> Well, as usual, it’s a question of who get’s the words.  In the world in
> which I was raised a velocity is a change in position over a change in
> time.  No change in distance,  no velocity.  Velocity at an instant is a
> mathematical fabulation in the same way that wanting at an instant is a
> fabulation.  My problem as a “thinker” is that I want to dismiss the
> latter, but I cannot dismiss the former.
>
> N
>
>
>
> Nick Thompson
>
> ThompNickSon2 at gmail.com
>
> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/
>
>
>
> *From:* Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com> *On Behalf Of *Frank Wimberly
> *Sent:* Friday, October 1, 2021 10:01 PM
> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <
> friam at redfish.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] Newborn Heart Rate
>
>
>
> Nick, i hope this helps.  Given a fair die that hasn't been thrown the
> probability that it will come up 2 (or any of the other particular values)
> on the next throw is 1/6 by definition of fair.  Given that it has been
> thrown and ceterus paribus the a posteriori probability that it shows 2
> given that it does is 1.0.  In that case the probabilities of each of the
> other values is 0.0.
>
>
>
> The acceleration of an object with constant velocity is 0.0.  If the
> velocity is changing the acceleration is the instantaneous change in
> velocity the knowledge of which is limited by the ability to measure that.
> The acceleration of an object whose velocity is described by a closed form
> mathematical function is the derivative of that function as we learned in
> calculus.  The derivative is defined by limits.  This is theoretical and
> approximates what happens in the physical world.
>
>
>
> Questions and comments are welcome.
>
>
>
> Frank
>
>
>
>
>
> ---
> Frank C. Wimberly
> 140 Calle Ojo Feliz,
> Santa Fe, NM 87505
>
> 505 670-9918
> Santa Fe, NM
>
>
>
> On Fri, Oct 1, 2021, 7:21 PM <thompnickson2 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I thought the conversation about probability, category errors, and
> crossing boundaries between levels of organization was interesting and I
> was sorry I had to leave it.   I want to say that to speak a die as having
> a probability of 1/6 of coming up 6 on a single throw is a category error
> because it is not a property that can be displayed on a single throw.  It’s
> the same worry that I have often deployed about the calculus.  If we take
> the idea of a category error seriously, then acceleration is just not the
> sort of thing an object can have at an instant.    But just as clearly as
> this argument is too strong – lots of very nice longstanding bridges have
> been built with the calculus – so the argument is also too strong with
> respect to probability – lots of nice atom bombs have been built with
> probability theory … or something.
>
>
>
> I care about this because my standard account of such concepts as
> “wanting” is that they are properties of the population of responses to an
> object, not properties of any one of those responses.   We encounter the
> same problem with anecdotes and newspaper photographs designed to
> illustrate some general fact.  If the generally fact is that “very few of
> the immigrants at the southern border are well treated” a single photograph
> looking peaked or hungry is irrelevant.  Equally irrelevant would be a
> picture of a bright eyed kid sitting in the lap of a border patrol officer
> eating a hot-fudge sundae.
>
>
>
> This makes me wonder about one of the foundations of psychological
> research, the statistics of inference, which I think Peirce invented.   Let
> a coin be thrown 10 times and each time come up heads.  What I think Peirce
> would  have me conclude is that that coin is unlikely to be drawn from a
> population of fair throws of a fair coin.   But, of coure, what we are
> likely to conclude is that “this coin is not fair.”    But that could be as
> misguided, couldn’t it, as concluding that the kid in the lap of the border
> patrol officers is being mistreated.
>
>
>
> I apologize, once more, for sharing my comfusions with you.
>
>
>
> n
>
>
>
> Nick Thompson
>
> ThompNickSon2 at gmail.com
>
> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/
>
>
>
> *From:* Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com> *On Behalf Of *Frank Wimberly
> *Sent:* Friday, October 1, 2021 6:46 PM
> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <
> friam at redfish.com>
> *Subject:* [FRIAM] Newborn Heart Rate
>
>
>
>
> https://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/61/1/119
>
>
>
> This is for those who attended this morning's vFriam meeting.  I was
> Schachter's colleague, among a couple of others.
>
>
>
>
>
> ---
> Frank C. Wimberly
> 140 Calle Ojo Feliz,
> Santa Fe, NM 87505
>
> 505 670-9918
> Santa Fe, NM
>
>
> .-- .- -. - / .- -.-. - .. --- -. ..--.. / -.-. --- -. .--- ..- --. .- - .
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn UTC-6  bit.ly/virtualfriam
> un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/
> archives:
>  5/2017 thru present https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/
>  1/2003 thru 6/2021  http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/
>
>
> .-- .- -. - / .- -.-. - .. --- -. ..--.. / -.-. --- -. .--- ..- --. .- - .
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn UTC-6  bit.ly/virtualfriam
> un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/
> archives:
>  5/2017 thru present https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/
>  1/2003 thru 6/2021  http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/
>
>
> .-- .- -. - / .- -.-. - .. --- -. ..--.. / -.-. --- -. .--- ..- --. .- - .
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn UTC-6  bit.ly/virtualfriam
> un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/
> archives:
>  5/2017 thru present https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/
>  1/2003 thru 6/2021  http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/
>
>
> .-- .- -. - / .- -.-. - .. --- -. ..--.. / -.-. --- -. .--- ..- --. .- - .
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn UTC-6  bit.ly/virtualfriam
> un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/
> archives:
>  5/2017 thru present https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/
>  1/2003 thru 6/2021  http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/attachments/20211002/f4e9be5b/attachment.html>

More information about the Friam mailing list