[FRIAM] Revising the American Revolution

Wed Oct 27 21:07:49 EDT 2021

Frank,

Now if that aint a blessing in disguise.

N. 

PS – Mixing Threads Alert!  I suppose that the above is an example of the sin of “chatting while on FRIAM.”  I confess to some ambivalence about the practice.  On the one hand, I can imagine that it is of some annoyance to lurkers who have to wade through a bunch of monosyllabic grunts on the way to our occasional insights; on the other hand, given the amount of thought ridden posts there are on this list, I am often grateful for the occasional monosyllabic grunt. 

N

Nick Thompson

 <mailto:ThompNickSon2 at gmail.com> ThompNickSon2 at gmail.com

 <https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/

From: Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com> On Behalf Of Frank Wimberly
Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2021 5:49 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <friam at redfish.com>
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Revising the American Revolution

I don't know, Nick.  I assume our privacy follows from our lack of importance.  To others.

---
Frank C. Wimberly
140 Calle Ojo Feliz, 
Santa Fe, NM 87505

505 670-9918
Santa Fe, NM

On Wed, Oct 27, 2021, 5:25 PM <thompnickson2 at gmail.com <mailto:thompnickson2 at gmail.com> > wrote:

Frank, 

Well, this may reflect my confusion between the permanence publicness dimensions.   I assume that the fear, particularly for the non-retired professionals on the site, might be that they might loose work because of some old thing they said on FRIAM.  For that to be the case, FRIAM would have to be both Permanent and Public.  Is that not the case?

Nick Thompson

 <mailto:ThompNickSon2 at gmail.com> ThompNickSon2 at gmail.com

 <https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/

From: Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com <mailto:friam-bounces at redfish.com> > On Behalf Of Frank Wimberly
Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2021 12:57 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <friam at redfish.com <mailto:friam at redfish.com> >
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Revising the American Revolution

Nick, where did the concept come from that persons other than the participants will read these conversations?  If you're referring to your hope that scholarly papers will emerge from this material won't that involve extensive review and editing?

Frank

---
Frank C. Wimberly
140 Calle Ojo Feliz, 
Santa Fe, NM 87505

505 670-9918
Santa Fe, NM

On Wed, Oct 27, 2021, 12:19 PM Marcus Daniels <marcus at snoutfarm.com <mailto:marcus at snoutfarm.com> > wrote:

Maybe recess and grade school sports are like a lab experiment for parents and teachers and they gain valuable insights (assuming it is not just sadistic)?  I have no fond memories of T ball, more like PTSD!  And dodge ball (sanctioned) set the stage for literal target practice on the weird kids.  This is not as overt in adult life but still there..

On Oct 27, 2021, at 10:49 AM, Frank Wimberly <wimberly3 at gmail.com <mailto:wimberly3 at gmail.com> > wrote:

When a grown person says it, it's playful.  When those little people on the playground say it, it's full of derision and crying sometimes follows. 

---
Frank C. Wimberly
140 Calle Ojo Feliz, 
Santa Fe, NM 87505

505 670-9918
Santa Fe, NM

On Wed, Oct 27, 2021, 11:40 AM <thompnickson2 at gmail.com <mailto:thompnickson2 at gmail.com> > wrote:

Frank, 

Well, hang on there, big fella.  “Scorn”  is a bridge too far.  As somebody famous once said, “I know my own intent.”  I meant only to suggest – humorously, I hoped – that Glen and I had already entered the domain of play ground taunt with his …

. But social contracts are only one, very debatable, construction for "inalienable rights". Just because it makes the most sense to you, doesn't mean it provides the solid foundation you're looking for. It looks more like postmodernist sand, to me. You modernists, who faithfully buy into Grand Narratives that fit your priors would be suckered in by it. But I don't.

… all packed and gussied up with its ad hominems.  All this is meant to be playful, and the moment it stops being fun, is the moment it should stop.  If I have brought us there, please accept my apologies and let’s let it go.  

All this is trivial compared to Glen’s suggestion that we have to be careful what we say here, not just because of possible hurts endured by one another (which I do care about) but because of who might be listening.  This is the second such suggestion from a person I deeply respect that has been offered me this week and I find it deeply concerning.   I am so used to the freedom that my professional obscurity conveys that I never worry about such reputational concerns.  Also, being an up-tight easterner, I am probably more self-canceling than many of you.  Finally, my die is already cast.  But should I be listening to what I write with an Other Ear?  For your sakes, at least?  

I suggest we start another thread:  “What Cannot Be Said On Friam” and explore this matter carefully.  

Nick

Nick Thompson

 <mailto:ThompNickSon2 at gmail.com> ThompNickSon2 at gmail.com

 <https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/

From: Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com <mailto:friam-bounces at redfish.com> > On Behalf Of Frank Wimberly
Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2021 10:50 AM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <friam at redfish.com <mailto:friam at redfish.com> >
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Revising the American Revolution

It's a form of scorn and derision to say, for example, "You lose; I win".  Very obnoxious.

---
Frank C. Wimberly
140 Calle Ojo Feliz, 
Santa Fe, NM 87505

505 670-9918
Santa Fe, NM

On Wed, Oct 27, 2021, 8:02 AM uǝlƃ ☤>$ <gepropella at gmail.com <mailto:gepropella at gmail.com> > wrote:

That's unhelpful. 8^D What does it mean?

On 10/27/21 6:53 AM, Frank Wimberly wrote:
> Most people would spell that, "nanner, nanner, nanner", I think.  It's heard on playgrounds all over, or it was in the 40s and 50s.  In Mexico they sing, "lero, lero, lero",  using the same notes.
> 
> 
> On Wed, Oct 27, 2021, 7:35 AM uǝlƃ ☤>$ <gepropella at gmail.com <mailto:gepropella at gmail.com>  <mailto:gepropella at gmail.com <mailto:gepropella at gmail.com> >> wrote:
> 
>     I have no idea how to respond to this post. I don't know what "neener, neener, neener" means, unfortunately. [...]
> 
> 
>     On 10/26/21 1:03 PM, thompnickson2 at gmail.com <mailto:thompnickson2 at gmail.com>  <mailto:thompnickson2 at gmail.com <mailto:thompnickson2 at gmail.com> > wrote:
>     > Grand narratives. Oh, neener, neener, neener.  [...]
>     >
>     > As I said: Neener, neener, neener.  And so's your old man.
> 

-- 
"Better to be slapped with the truth than kissed with a lie."
☤>$ uǝlƃ

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