[FRIAM] the cancellation arc

Thu Sep 16 00:17:12 EDT 2021

Dave might be accurate in his self-assessment - i.e., that he would put it
on a shelf after a while. I'm pretty sure the $50 billion industry suggests
that many would not. Though, maybe they would put their first one on the
shelf, and only come back to it intermittently for nostalgic reasons, while
collecting multiple helmets with similar functionality that had novel
color, shapes, and attachments.

On Wed, Sep 15, 2021 at 11:25 PM <thompnickson2 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi, everyone [who is still following this thread].
>
>
>
> Before I go back on my meds, I just thought I would send along this link
> <https://www.huffpost.com/entry/compass-pleasure_b_890342>.  I should
> perhaps be embarrassed at sending a HuffPost link, but the summary of the
> old Olds/Milner research seems accurate enough and it is very succinct.
>  On my account we have been talking all along about the epiphenomenal
> relation and in particular, that version of it which relates goals to
> functions.  Functions are epiphenomenal with respect to the goals that
> serve them.  The function of a pleasure (ie, a goal system) is to get us to
> do stuff that urgently needs doing.  What happens when we access the goal
> system directly and make it possible to do essentially nothing and achieve
> the goal?   Dave says, having learned what it had to teach him, he would
> put the device on a shelf.  But how would he do that and WHY would he do
> that?  What other goal-pleasure would be sufficient to mobilize and direct
> him in the putting of the device on the shelf.
>
>
>
> Ok.  Best be done for a bit.  Let’ see.  One tablet a day by mouth.  Sorry
> to bother you all.  I do learn a lot from these exercises, even if nobody
> else does.  And then later I write something good, and that pleases me.
>
>
>
>
>
> Nick
>
>
>
> Nick Thompson
>
> ThompNickSon2 at gmail.com
>
> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/
>
>
>
> *From:* Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com> *On Behalf Of *Marcus Daniels
> *Sent:* Wednesday, September 15, 2021 9:45 PM
> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <
> friam at redfish.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] the cancellation arc
>
>
>
> One could mimic the raw signals from sexual organs, or one could mimic the
> internal signals that are derived from those signals, that integrate with
> relevant context that create the perception of loving feelings and their
> “meaning”.   Like in the dreams that have been discussed recently, the
> semantics are also encoded into neurons.
>
>
>
> *From:* Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com> *On Behalf Of *
> thompnickson2 at gmail.com
> *Sent:* Wednesday, September 15, 2021 6:10 PM
> *To:* 'The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group' <
> friam at redfish.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] the cancellation arc
>
>
>
> Yes, but WHY?
>
>
>
> Probably time for me to figure out what my point is, here.  First of all,
> we are deep in the epiphenomenon, spandrel, intensionality, blah-blah-blah
> perplex here,   Pleasures are pleasures because the mean something, and if
> you disconnect the pleasure from the thing it means … disconnect the red
> fluff on brown wire from the thing it means to the male robin … you get the
> bird attacking the fluff and no territory defended.
>
>
>
> I thought we were talking about a direct brain stimulation that produced
> orgasmic pleasure.  So all your industry—salacious as it might be -- is
> irrelevant, no?  And so is my puritanism.
>
>
>
> What is not irrelevant – if indeed it is still regarded as valid science –
> is that ancient study with rats that involved wires in the “pleasure”
> center of the brain.  Unless my Puritan Brain remembers falsely, the rats
> just went on pressing the bar until they starved to death.  The
> evolutionary meaning of pleasure is what it leads you to do.  Everything
> else is just spandrel.
>
>
>
> Nick
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Nick Thompson
>
> ThompNickSon2 at gmail.com
>
> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/
>
>
>
> *From:* Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com> *On Behalf Of *Eric Charles
> *Sent:* Wednesday, September 15, 2021 8:31 PM
> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <
> friam at redfish.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] the cancellation arc
>
>
>
> Nick.... man.... sometimes you are so old and Puritanical-New-England-ey
> it is hilarious. "Hey everyone! Let's imagine that there wasn't a $50
> *billion* dollar industry producing sex toy... ok... if that didn't
> exist, how would we invent one?"
>
>
>
> Like.... should I send you links of people in public places with gadgets
> (remote controlled by premium-level paying fans) inserted in various
> orifices? It's a whole genera.
>
>
> • Size of the global sex toy market 2019-2026 | Statista
> <https://www.statista.com/statistics/587109/size-of-the-global-sex-toy-market/>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 15, 2021 at 1:20 PM <thompnickson2 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Ok.  Imagine a device that would produce, at command, an orgasm.  Imagine
> further that it had settings that could be tweaked to produce different
> intensities and kinds of orgasm.  Imagine finally that it has a
> randomization setting.  Imagine that it costs 49.95, 30 day money back
> guarantee.
>
>
>
> Would you buy it?
>
>
>
> Does this have to do with the Shirley/Kaye Sera dimension Glen and I were
> talking about? (I think Glen was the one amongst you clods that got that
> joke.)  We who are in love with Shirley would never touch it;  you
> Kaye-lovers would buy it, I suppose.  Does it have anything to do with lack
> of respect for the decisions that Evolution has made for you?  Is the
> Shirley/Kaye distinction a version of the Apollonian/Dionysian
> distinction?  I hope that Dave West, priest as he is at the Temple of Kaye,
> with straighten me out on my Nietzsche.  See also, *Patterns of Culture
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruth_Benedict#Patterns_of_Culture>*
>
>
>
> N
>
>
>
> Nick Thompson
>
> ThompNickSon2 at gmail.com
>
> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/
>
>
>
> *From:* Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com> *On Behalf Of *Marcus Daniels
> *Sent:* Wednesday, September 15, 2021 1:02 PM
> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <
> friam at redfish.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] the cancellation arc
>
>
>
> I think the Flow TD-NIRS system is like $50k for now, but it isn’t really
> buyable yet.    The Flux magnetometer system would be in the millions, I
> think.   Nothing beats implanted wires!
>
>
>
> *From:* Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com> *On Behalf Of *Steve Smith
> *Sent:* Wednesday, September 15, 2021 6:46 AM
> *To:* friam at redfish.com
> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] the cancellation arc
>
>
>
>
>
> On 9/14/21 6:01 PM, Marcus Daniels wrote:
>
> See kernel.com
>
> Yeh, like that...   plenty of what looks like slick pre-release
> hype-by-allusion, yet undeniably evidence that the development in this area
> is in a virtuous feedback loop.   A quick gander didn't present me with any
> numbers but the gear looks pretty pricey...   probably the stuff of a
> future motorcycle/bicycle/climbing helmet to upload your brain as you go
> into a skid/fall/tumble!
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sep 14, 2021, at 4:40 PM, Steve Smith <sasmyth at swcp.com>
> <sasmyth at swcp.com> wrote:
>
>  Glen-
>
> Ha! Well, not for me. I'm a technophile. Even more important than drug-induced experiences are those induced by other technologies like transcranial magnetic stimulation, which I don't regard as fundamentally different from connectivity drugs. Implants would be even better for interacting with that hairball of [intero|proprio]ceptive feedback loops that compose consciousness as well as pain.
>
> I've been dabbling with transcutaneous electro neural stim and electro
> muscular stim (TENS/EMS) primarily for pain and rehab (Mary's recent
> back/leg pain/dysfunction), trying to work it into the VR/AR simulacral
> artifacts I already fiddle with in Visual/Aural/CheapHaptics.
>
> The accessibility of VR/AR gear (HUD/HMD/GPU/CPU) has already overshot my
> wildest dreams of a couple of decades ago   I fiddled with EEG pickups 20
> years ago but it was too early or at least there was a metaphorical
> impedance mismatch of sorts. I've NOT dabbled with transcranial magnetic
> stimulation...   I don't even know if it is accessible.  I am curious
> (guardedly hopeful) that these things are maturing at a pop/commercial
> level faster/better than at the professional level.   There may well be a
> crowd-sourced ensemble exploration underway right now.
>
> Regarding your *muscaria/fly agaric* aspirations, I'm hearing something
> more like homeopathy or law-of-similars since the "fly" in *fly agaric*
> comes from etymologically the habit of using it to poison flies by infusing
> it in milk to attract flies.    Maybe this is entirely a tangent (most of
> my observations here *are* tangents?).
>
> - Steve
>
> So, I'll leave the sweat lodges and eating of wiggling things to more adventurous types like you. But the drugs need not be orally administered. I've always wanted to try to fly by painting myself with muscaria.
>
>
>
> On 9/14/21 11:03 AM, Prof David West wrote:
>
> Glen: /Were I fully liberated, I'd be doing a lot more, and a lot more diverse, drugs than I do./
>
>
>
> Diversity of *_/experiences/_*, not just drugs!!
>
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