[FRIAM] technical notes on fusion announcement
Gillian Densmore
gil.densmore at gmail.com
Thu Dec 15 20:53:44 EST 2022
Gotcha!
I don't know man. You can swim in the same water used to cool rods because
water close to the rods blocks neutrons. My concern about the DOE putting
so many eggs in the fusion basket and ignoring the day to day year to year.
Breeder reactors as a proven reliable start aren't without their own
issues. not the least of witch is the production of weaponizable fissile
materials (:( ) .
And yeah you bring up a good point need something like CERN or the Large
Hagon collider to get even enough raw material to heat a tea cup for 30
minutes.
Do you know if that's something we can over come?
I guess i'm staring in mortified terror that global warming is here.
needing just a few huge changes. I mean don't get me wrong fusion has huge
potential. But at the same time Fission is here. just to get the proverbial
ball rolling it'd be pretty sweet to start with that wouldn't it?
On Thu, Dec 15, 2022, 6:22 PM Barry MacKichan <barry.mackichan at mackichan.com>
wrote:
> I am a long-time environmentalist (I think I joined the Wilderness Society
> in the early 60’s) and I opposed fission power plants because of safety
> issues and because of the long-lived waste products. My feeling is that
> even if you make the probability of a screw-up very low, given 10,000
> yearsm *something* will happen.
>
> Now with global warming imminent, I support some fission plants as a
> back-up to solar and wind (and tide, …) generators.
>
> The problem with antimatter is, what kind of bottle will you put it in?
> Also, to make antimatter, you need to put as much (actually more:
> conservation of energy — bummer) into it as you will get out, so one step
> forward, then one and a half back.
>
> --Barry
>
> On 15 Dec 2022, at 16:28, Gillian Densmore wrote:
>
> Ok so this is cool and all.
> Sigh I'll ask *that* question. We want less carbons because the planet is
> on f'n fire <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFgBFYkBZ6E> . As far as I
> know humans (in the very least) accelerated climate change. Ie we made this
> mess clean it up. ok fair so far I'm following.
> So uh why not just start with fission (breeders) ? Why not also put as
> much money into matter/anti matter as well as fusion? We can make minute
> amounts of antimatter in massive collider. I'd think something who's by
> product are xrays gamma and some other stuff with a lot of energy created
> would be a massive honney pot the department of energy would pursue as well.
> I know the answer to fission (sadly) is NIMBY. (yes but it's a lot cleaner
> and safer than oil and coal I say)
> I don't know why we haven't looked at other things as well
> What I'm saying is fusion has been humans icarus wings with it being just
> arround the corner for decades. while matter/anti matter is (sort of) here.
> Fission is here. Want zero carbons? cool! so why not build out a ton of
> reactors we already can do. Or am I missing something?
>
> On Wed, Dec 14, 2022 at 8:31 AM Marcus Daniels <marcus at snoutfarm.com>
> wrote:
>
>> How ICF might evolve into a power plant:
>>
>> https://firstlightfusion.com/technology/power-plant
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Dec 14, 2022, at 7:16 AM, glen <gepropella at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Excellent! Thanks. I think I'll have to push this topic for another
>> day. I've got a few more links from other fora I'll plop here just in case
>> I only land back here if/when I pop it off the stack later:
>>
>>
>> https://lasers.llnl.gov/news/magnetized-targets-boost-nif-implosion-performance
>>
>> https://spie.org/news/nuclear-fusion-nifs-hall-of-mirrors-may-solve-worlds-energy-crisis?SSO=1
>>
>> https://www.science.org/content/article/fusion-power-may-run-fuel-even-gets-started
>>
>> https://arstechnica.com/science/2022/12/what-enabled-the-big-boost-in-fusion-energy-announced-this-week/
>>
>> On 12/13/22 16:23, Steve Smith wrote:
>>
>> I think DT refers simply to the remaining fraction of Deuterium/Tritium
>> remaining after the reaction event (-4%) without specific accounting for
>> remaining D vs T.
>>
>> My understanding is that D-T fusion occurs at a lower temperature than
>> D-D but that once fusion commences (starting with D-T), both D-T and D-D
>> reactions occurring in similar amounts. In laser-driven ICF (as with NIF) I
>> believe the ratio of D/T is nominally 50/50 though it would seem to make
>> sense to have a higher T to D ratio but most references I see imply equal
>> portions. An equal number of D-D and D-T reactions would seem to consume
>> D more quickly, though as that commences, the D/T ratio would go down,
>> making D-T reactions (yet) more likely... tricky business, no wonder it
>> has taken decades to get to this point?
>>
>> The Wikipedia Entry on ICF is pretty good:
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inertial_confinement_fusion
>>
>> I found several popular science Articles which seem to reinforce my sense
>> that this "breakthrough" is not as significant as implied:
>>
>>
>> https://www.science.org/content/article/fusion-breakthrough-nif-uh-not-really
>>
>> Other interesting/relevant links regarding D-T and D-D fusion...
>>
>>
>> https://www.researchgate.net/publication/263507001_Species_separation_and_modification_of_neutron_diagnostics_in_inertial-confinement_fusion/figures?lo=1
>>
>> https://www.energy.gov/science/doe-explainsnuclear-fusion-reactions <
>> https://www.energy.gov/science/doe-explainsnuclear-fusion-reactions>
>>
>> https://science.jrank.org/pages/4732/Nuclear-Fusion-D-D-D-T-reactions.html
>> <
>> https://science.jrank.org/pages/4732/Nuclear-Fusion-D-D-D-T-reactions.html
>> >
>>
>> On 12/13/22 4:36 PM, glen wrote:
>>
>> That's why I asked. I guess I'll assume DT means both deuterium and
>> tritium, not just deuterium. If you were going to track fuel use, you'd
>> track the rarer part more closely, right?
>>
>>
>> On 12/13/22 09:22, Frank Wimberly wrote:
>>
>> DT = deuterium?
>>
>>
>> ---
>>
>> Frank C. Wimberly
>>
>> 140 Calle Ojo Feliz,
>>
>> Santa Fe, NM 87505
>>
>>
>> 505 670-9918
>>
>> Santa Fe, NM
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Dec 13, 2022, 10:21 AM glen <gepropella at gmail.com <mailto:
>> gepropella at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Awesome. Thanks. I'm still trying to catch up with the QC Wormhole
>> kerfuffle. Who knew Quanta was so click baity?
>>
>>
>> What is "DT"?
>>
>>
>> On 12/13/22 09:02, Marcus Daniels wrote:
>>
>> > In case no one wanted to get up at 7:00am to watch DOE
>> administrators talk:
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> > 1. Controlling the laser in space and time was important for
>> maintaining symmetry. Timing precision of 25e-12 secs and laser spatial
>> precision of 5e-12 meter were needed. This was thought to be the main
>> explanation for the achievement.
>>
>> >
>>
>> > 2. 8% more power on the laser this time
>>
>> >
>>
>> > 3. x-ray tomography is used to find flaws in the capsules.
>> Developing software to do the counting.
>>
>> >
>>
>> > 4. They have ongoing efforts to study the fabrication systems and
>> their components (done in Germany) to find idiosyncrasies of each.
>>
>> >
>>
>> > 5. Laser technology improvements since NIF was built which are 20%
>> more efficient.
>>
>> >
>>
>> > 6. Target cost is from labor, and it takes 7 months each
>>
>> >
>>
>> > 7. 4% of DT is burned in a shot
>>
>> >
>>
>> > 8. Machine learning ties together radiation hydrodynamics and
>> experimental data. (It sounded preliminary.)
>>
>> >
>>
>> > 9. The (successful) capsule had more defects than previous
>> experiments. However, previous experiments did show benefits from capsule
>> quality.
>>
>> >
>>
>> > 10. 15% of experiments are indirect drive of this kind, 15% of
>> experiments are other approaches to ignition. The rest are weapons and
>> materials characterization.
>>
>> >
>>
>> > 11. Anomalous laser directional control were problems in the
>> summer runs. Fixed that.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> ꙮ Mɥǝu ǝlǝdɥɐuʇs ɟᴉƃɥʇ' ʇɥǝ ƃɹɐss snɟɟǝɹs˙ ꙮ
>>
>> -. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. .
>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
>> Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe / Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom
>> https://bit.ly/virtualfriam
>> to (un)subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
>> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/
>> archives: 5/2017 thru present
>> https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/
>> 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/
>>
>> -. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. .
>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
>> Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe / Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom
>> https://bit.ly/virtualfriam
>> to (un)subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
>> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/
>> archives: 5/2017 thru present
>> https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/
>> 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/
>>
> -. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. .
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe / Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom
> https://bit.ly/virtualfriam
> to (un)subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/
> archives: 5/2017 thru present
> https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/
> 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/
>
> -. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. .
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe / Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom
> https://bit.ly/virtualfriam
> to (un)subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/
> archives: 5/2017 thru present
> https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/
> 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/attachments/20221215/defec26f/attachment.html>
More information about the Friam
mailing list