[FRIAM] gene complex for homosexuality

Tue Jan 11 01:05:31 EST 2022

I went to elementary school with a guy,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dean_Hamer, whose wikipedia bio describes
research in the the genetic basis of sexual orientation that he did at NIH
in the 1990's.

-- rec --

On Sun, Jan 9, 2022 at 5:15 AM Jochen Fromm <jofr at cas-group.net> wrote:

> This topic is a minefield, because it is related like the controversial
> "race" term to the personal identify. Black people for instance score
> higher in 100m or 200m runs than white people as the data clearly shows,
> which means their genes somehow must give them more power for this
> particular competition. Still all people belong to the same race. As you
> know this topic is very controversial and precarious. For sex it is similar.
>
> There are genes for the two major sex hormones, estrogen for women and
> testosterone for men. Males have one X and Y chromosome, females have two X
> chromosomes. Therefore there are clearly genetic differences between men
> and women.
>
> Just how girls who are subject to estrogen develop an affection for boys
> is unclear. The same for boys who are subject to testosterone in their
> development. My hypothesis is that the mechanism works like "develop an
> affection for those who look the same but different" during the time the
> sex hormones start to work. Once they have a preference, addiction
> mechanisms kick in which tell the individuals to do more of that which they
> like. Something like that where the target of affection is path dependent
> and not completely hardwired.
>
> In general I would say that homosexuality is a byproduct of the mating
> process. This would explain why homosexuality continues to exist in
> evolutionary systems although these individuals have less or no offspring.
> Like coal power plants which produce CO2 and nuclear power plants which
> produce nuclear waste, the mating process produces losers who lost for
> whatever reason in the competition for mates and have no offspring. Among
> those some may pick a mate of the same sex, because the sex drive is hard
> to ignore and not completely hardwired.
>
> This is just my rough idea how it could work in principle. It can be wrong
> and it is a delicate topic. There are many books about the sociologal and
> psychological aspects of it. In the library I usually ignore them because
> it is not a topic I am especially interested in. Therefore my knowledge is
> incomplete in this area, and someone else here can probably explain it
> better.
>
> -J.
>
>
> -------- Original message --------
> From: thompnickson2 at gmail.com
> Date: 1/9/22 01:39 (GMT+01:00)
> To: 'The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group' <
> friam at redfish.com>
> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] gene complex for homosexuality
>
> Well, first things first.  Is there any evidence for a genetic basis for
> homosexuality.   You can, of course, have a trait that it is chromosomally
> determined (if not genetically so) and still not heritable.  Sex, for
> instance.  Sex is not heritable.
>
>
>
> My assumption has always been that homosexuality might be influence by
> innate factors, but not be heritable.
>
>
>
> I haven’t read up on that subject for 2 decades.
>
>
>
> Anybody know any facts?
>
>
>
> n
>
>
>
> Nick Thompson
>
> ThompNickSon2 at gmail.com
>
> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/
>
>
>
> *From:* Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com> *On Behalf Of *Marcus Daniels
> *Sent:* Saturday, January 8, 2022 5:57 PM
> *To:* FriAM <friam at redfish.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] gene complex for homosexuality
>
>
>
> It seems like such a dumb question to ask.   Why should any preference
> have a genetic basis?   How about look for a gene that encodes a preference
> for plush carpeting or a preference for Flamenco music?   And what about
> those men that like short women?!   Maybe a man is kind of like a tall
> woman, on average?   And why would anyone expect that it would be bimodal?
> If it were what would that tell us?   One could imagine homosexuality is
> just one manifestation of cognitive or emotional flexibility.  That by
> itself would explain why it is enduring, because those properties would
> give a person an advantage over less flexible people.  Some fraction of the
> people with that property have heterosexual or bisexual relationships, and
> they reproduce and raise children that thrive.   The rigid (heterosexual)
> types in comparison are prone to making the same kind of mistakes over and
> over and their children suffer for it.
> ------------------------------
>
> *From:* Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com> on behalf of ⛧ glen <
> gepropella at gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Saturday, January 8, 2022 4:13 PM
> *To:* FriAM <friam at redfish.com>
> *Subject:* [FRIAM] gene complex for homosexuality
>
>
>
> I'm in an ongoing argument with a gay friend about how tortured Darwinian
> arguments are in accounting for homosexuality. He claims they're VERY
> torturous. I'm inclined toward the first mentioned here:
> https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-26089486
>
> But, were group selection and/or cultural evolution a thing, then my
> friend would be more right. Anyone here have a strong opinion?
>
> --
> glen ⛧
>
>
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