[FRIAM] gene complex for homosexuality

Tue Jan 11 08:51:41 EST 2022

Here's a recent study using the large UK Biobank database.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7082777/

________________________________
From: Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com> on behalf of Roger Critchlow <rec at elf.org>
Sent: Monday, January 10, 2022 11:05 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <friam at redfish.com>
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] gene complex for homosexuality

I went to elementary school with a guy, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dean_Hamer, whose wikipedia bio describes research in the the genetic basis of sexual orientation that he did at NIH in the 1990's.

-- rec --

On Sun, Jan 9, 2022 at 5:15 AM Jochen Fromm <jofr at cas-group.net<mailto:jofr at cas-group.net>> wrote:
This topic is a minefield, because it is related like the controversial "race" term to the personal identify. Black people for instance score higher in 100m or 200m runs than white people as the data clearly shows, which means their genes somehow must give them more power for this particular competition. Still all people belong to the same race. As you know this topic is very controversial and precarious. For sex it is similar.

There are genes for the two major sex hormones, estrogen for women and testosterone for men. Males have one X and Y chromosome, females have two X chromosomes. Therefore there are clearly genetic differences between men and women.

Just how girls who are subject to estrogen develop an affection for boys is unclear. The same for boys who are subject to testosterone in their development. My hypothesis is that the mechanism works like "develop an affection for those who look the same but different" during the time the sex hormones start to work. Once they have a preference, addiction mechanisms kick in which tell the individuals to do more of that which they like. Something like that where the target of affection is path dependent and not completely hardwired.

In general I would say that homosexuality is a byproduct of the mating process. This would explain why homosexuality continues to exist in evolutionary systems although these individuals have less or no offspring. Like coal power plants which produce CO2 and nuclear power plants which produce nuclear waste, the mating process produces losers who lost for whatever reason in the competition for mates and have no offspring. Among those some may pick a mate of the same sex, because the sex drive is hard to ignore and not completely hardwired.

This is just my rough idea how it could work in principle. It can be wrong and it is a delicate topic. There are many books about the sociologal and psychological aspects of it. In the library I usually ignore them because it is not a topic I am especially interested in. Therefore my knowledge is incomplete in this area, and someone else here can probably explain it better.

-J.

-------- Original message --------
From: thompnickson2 at gmail.com<mailto:thompnickson2 at gmail.com>
Date: 1/9/22 01:39 (GMT+01:00)
To: 'The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group' <friam at redfish.com<mailto:friam at redfish.com>>
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] gene complex for homosexuality

Well, first things first.  Is there any evidence for a genetic basis for homosexuality.   You can, of course, have a trait that it is chromosomally determined (if not genetically so) and still not heritable.  Sex, for instance.  Sex is not heritable.

My assumption has always been that homosexuality might be influence by innate factors, but not be heritable.

I haven’t read up on that subject for 2 decades.

Anybody know any facts?

n

Nick Thompson

ThompNickSon2 at gmail.com<mailto:ThompNickSon2 at gmail.com>

https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/

From: Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com<mailto:friam-bounces at redfish.com>> On Behalf Of Marcus Daniels
Sent: Saturday, January 8, 2022 5:57 PM
To: FriAM <friam at redfish.com<mailto:friam at redfish.com>>
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] gene complex for homosexuality

It seems like such a dumb question to ask.   Why should any preference have a genetic basis?   How about look for a gene that encodes a preference for plush carpeting or a preference for Flamenco music?   And what about those men that like short women?!   Maybe a man is kind of like a tall woman, on average?   And why would anyone expect that it would be bimodal?  If it were what would that tell us?   One could imagine homosexuality is just one manifestation of cognitive or emotional flexibility.  That by itself would explain why it is enduring, because those properties would give a person an advantage over less flexible people.  Some fraction of the people with that property have heterosexual or bisexual relationships, and they reproduce and raise children that thrive.   The rigid (heterosexual) types in comparison are prone to making the same kind of mistakes over and over and their children suffer for it.

________________________________

From: Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com<mailto:friam-bounces at redfish.com>> on behalf of ⛧ glen <gepropella at gmail.com<mailto:gepropella at gmail.com>>
Sent: Saturday, January 8, 2022 4:13 PM
To: FriAM <friam at redfish.com<mailto:friam at redfish.com>>
Subject: [FRIAM] gene complex for homosexuality

I'm in an ongoing argument with a gay friend about how tortured Darwinian arguments are in accounting for homosexuality. He claims they're VERY torturous. I'm inclined toward the first mentioned here: https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-26089486

But, were group selection and/or cultural evolution a thing, then my friend would be more right. Anyone here have a strong opinion?

--
glen ⛧

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