[FRIAM] health care logistics

Tue Jan 25 17:20:01 EST 2022

Tasty tumors!

From: Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com> On Behalf Of David Eric Smith
Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2022 12:56 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <friam at redfish.com>
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] health care logistics

Weird, and interesting.

In the first page, where they comment that they are culturing biopsied cells to large scale, my immediate thought was “those cells have to be immortalized”, which they say a page later.

At least in much of cell culture research (all of it?), the only cells that make it to immortalization are the ones that go aneuploid, which is a kind of escape from regulatory mechanisms that is important to metastasis in at least many cancers (true in all of them?  I don’t know.  Peter Duesberg says so, but that doesn’t necessarily count).

Since everything is supposed to be chewed up digestively anyway, I don’t suppose it should matter whether a cell culture line used for food is aneuploid or not.  I find it interesting if it does not change cell-cell binding in a way that would be important for something to seem like “meat”.  But I haven’t read about the processing.

I wonder how much there is to study on this over the longer term.

Eric

On Jan 25, 2022, at 1:38 PM, Marcus Daniels <marcus at snoutfarm.com<mailto:marcus at snoutfarm.com>> wrote:

https://goodmeat.co/process<https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fgoodmeat.co%2fprocess&c=E,1,cc0UXzpHcpIUldST355NTueKAubejYej9Tu6TDfu6RseJmyf7nn4ySPH4GtWuEXr88Bgac-rqS0Pgu5skqVLkiI9JGT_YHnyEpJf4Ljes2Ub9uejiEiFvQbB&typo=1>

________________________________
From: Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com<mailto:friam-bounces at redfish.com>> on behalf of Steve Smith <sasmyth at swcp.com<mailto:sasmyth at swcp.com>>
Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2022 11:25 AM
To: friam at redfish.com<mailto:friam at redfish.com> <friam at redfish.com<mailto:friam at redfish.com>>
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] health care logistics

On 1/25/22 8:48 AM, Frank Wimberly wrote:
Boneless chicken breasts come from roosters?
Top hit on my google...  not sure if US is very different from AU:
https://www.chicken.org.au/are-meat-chickens-male-or-female/<https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fwww.chicken.org.au%2fare-meat-chickens-male-or-female%2f&c=E,1,6tdQm63rq7rDN78Plgud3DPEE_wHdAozmZGjHyFXpXDW1NKIF-VKqJz3AretO-kYe8AQyLgxU_GE5E_8F6DScWMlmDAC9ZRrCv_GYGu1YTr-n53vMSGQVxd-L2c,&typo=1>
---
Frank C. Wimberly
140 Calle Ojo Feliz,
Santa Fe, NM 87505

505 670-9918
Santa Fe, NM

On Tue, Jan 25, 2022, 8:45 AM Steve Smith <sasmyth at swcp.com<mailto:sasmyth at swcp.com>> wrote:
We neuter many/most male pets and beasts of burden, slaughter many of them young (e.g. this is where most of our beef and chicken come from).
We do this for various reasons that are not entirely unrelated to the larger conversation here...
On 1/25/22 7:35 AM, David Eric Smith wrote:
Never too late, Merle.

On Jan 25, 2022, at 9:32 AM, Merle Lefkoff <merlelefkoff at gmail.com<mailto:merlelefkoff at gmail.com>> wrote:

Yes, they should have drowned the boys.

On Tue, Jan 25, 2022 at 7:27 AM Frank Wimberly <wimberly3 at gmail.com<mailto:wimberly3 at gmail.com>> wrote:
But

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Female_infanticide_in_China#20th_century

---
Frank C. Wimberly
140 Calle Ojo Feliz,
Santa Fe, NM 87505

505 670-9918
Santa Fe, NM

On Tue, Jan 25, 2022, 7:16 AM Merle Lefkoff <merlelefkoff at gmail.com<mailto:merlelefkoff at gmail.com>> wrote:
Dave is right.  Development experts have known for a long time that when girls get educated and women hold jobs outside the home they are much more likely to control childbearing.  However, the culture must change everywhere, and it happens quite slowly with lots of pushback.  Check out the new protest and direct action movement that's happening with young men demonstrating in the streets in S. Korea.  ("A Vicious Anti-Feminist Backlash Stuns South Korea", Globe And Mail, 1/22.)

On Tue, Jan 25, 2022 at 12:40 AM Prof David West <profwest at fastmail.fm<mailto:profwest at fastmail.fm>> wrote:
It has been known for a long time that the most effective means of birth / population control was educating girls, followed closely by empowering girls, e.g., with micro-loans to start businesses. I remember studying this topic way back in the 80s in my anthropology graduate program.

davew

On Mon, Jan 24, 2022, at 9:02 PM, Marcus Daniels wrote:
Merle wrote:

< China's population has stopped growing--primarily because there are more urban educated workers, especially women. >

Estimate in Hawken's book was the 6th largest potential reduction for CO2 drawdown came from educating girls.  His reference was:

https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.1206964<https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fwww.science.org%2fdoi%2f10.1126%2fscience.1206964&c=E,1,dhZqId6BmX_lZAkiZ4KqytELCYK4cwA4xLz977cmeLfMrTYrhP3BmklQPOLEU4fwWN1lRQM2UxbXsMWAXVEDer4Yykb7kz6tIFR9uWjkYw,,&typo=1>

________________________________

From: Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com<mailto:friam-bounces at redfish.com>> on behalf of Merle Lefkoff <merlelefkoff at gmail.com<mailto:merlelefkoff at gmail.com>>
Sent: Monday, January 24, 2022 9:40 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <friam at redfish.com<mailto:friam at redfish.com>>
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] health care logistics

China's population has stopped growing--primarily because there are more urban educated workers, especially women.

On Mon, Jan 24, 2022 at 7:11 PM Frank Wimberly <wimberly3 at gmail.com<mailto:wimberly3 at gmail.com>> wrote:
Excellent, Marcus.

Eric, if it's less than 90% it still would have be significant.  Two problems, "God" has tricks for making babies.  As for 1 child per couple didn't they "terminate" some babies (not fetuses, feti?), particularly females?  My impression is that their population has grown substantially notwithstanding those policies.

Frank

---
Frank C. Wimberly
140 Calle Ojo Feliz,
Santa Fe, NM 87505

505 670-9918
Santa Fe, NM

On Mon, Jan 24, 2022, 6:38 PM Marcus Daniels <marcus at snoutfarm.com<mailto:marcus at snoutfarm.com>> wrote:
Before I launch into a diatribe about why the hell we can't agree to basic, never mind interesting things:   I'd just like to report that the James Webb telescope is in L2 orbit.  Score one for the negotiating, patient, subtlety-appreciating scientists and their counterparts in government.

Marcus

________________________________

From: Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com<mailto:friam-bounces at redfish.com>> on behalf of David Eric Smith <desmith at santafe.edu<mailto:desmith at santafe.edu>>
Sent: Monday, January 24, 2022 6:01 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <friam at redfish.com<mailto:friam at redfish.com>>
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] health care logistics

You know, as I read your characterization, Marcus, it took me back to Hannah Arendt’s description of feudal Europe and the role of the Rothschilds and other big Jewish quasi-stateless fixer families in relation to the feudal lords.  Fussy and indirect seems somehow very close to the right picture of the stateless ones navigating always through the cracks and seams, compared to the blunt moves of the ones who had states.

I have some discomfort that this doesn’t quite map.  Yet it seems not fully dissimilar.

Eric

On Jan 24, 2022, at 7:19 PM, Marcus Daniels <marcus at snoutfarm.com<mailto:marcus at snoutfarm.com>> wrote:

SFI sponsorship seems like very much a fideistic declaration.   It would be interesting to see how that influence network feeds into a D.C. influencer network and real money.   There are some linkages, like Brookings, but leverage-wise it all seems much softer than with LANL and the DOE.   And it all seems so fussy and indirect compared to slapping down a few billion dollars to build a Starship.  That's the appeal of Musk:  I'm f'ing doing this.

________________________________

From: Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com<mailto:friam-bounces at redfish.com>> on behalf of glen <gepropella at gmail.com<mailto:gepropella at gmail.com>>
Sent: Monday, January 24, 2022 5:08 PM
To: friam at redfish.com<mailto:friam at redfish.com> <friam at redfish.com<mailto:friam at redfish.com>>
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] health care logistics

Well, that ain't true, either. Like Epstein, when you "invest" in the SFI or people like Steven Pinker or Bill Clinton, you're simply transferring from one store to another ... buying influence. If, e.g., the CIA contracts with the SFI to adapt a CAS modeling tool into a broad spectrum simulation tool, they are not only buying a (questionable) piece of software; they're buying *leverage* over people's salaries, loyalty, etc. So those VCs *will* see that money again, perhaps much less of it, depending on the efficiency of the transaction, or in fringe storage types (able to get past the receptionist after eating over-priced peri-Mexican food in order to have tea with smart people).

On 1/24/22 15:31, Marcus Daniels wrote:
> Some of them sponsor SFI for goodness' sake!   They'll never see THAT money again!
--
glen
Theorem 3. There exists a double master function.

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Merle Lefkoff, Ph.D.
Center for Emergent Diplomacy
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Merle Lefkoff, Ph.D.
Center for Emergent Diplomacy
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mobile:  (303) 859-5609
skype:  merle.lelfkoff2
twitter: @merle110

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FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/<https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2ffriam-comic.blogspot.com%2f&c=E,1,ojCwmLF0TfKKrLyca2N9r2JlW4i5WDLy4nQpAem3ySzOaF-mOksDspBIFpPyNBt1NjXz97ibfzUGLpUKEd1h_uCwoks-oJOtBMfyBian80pKlxA5cBZfDQ,,&typo=1>
archives:
 5/2017 thru present https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/<https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fredfish.com%2fpipermail%2ffriam_redfish.com%2f&c=E,1,O9nOWUVGVCcjJz985EKAtn7vjbqcXxYMsEiRXVhvVmBzvyNmxFOh5oi1X1IfbxluN67RcOMLvzCdd9RF_IfyHppmQVZtp-ol3Wv8NbUkQWJtpMAcR8fK&typo=1>
 1/2003 thru 6/2021  http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/

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FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn UTC-6  bit.ly/virtualfriam<https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fbit.ly%2fvirtualfriam&c=E,1,4dV4NXIARSWCtcadS54VEJ6TDkhkuVqmUbxvYCgEB3uDzrcAn0nOCk5zo1seSIgJ-A9exANaQzuhKUILzmMOtIVvosAL0sPayT-Z34Bq1xBW95Rj_UNBvzZveA,,&typo=1>
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FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/<https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2ffriam-comic.blogspot.com%2f&c=E,1,NQocVMUVW6Js80-U1MoKk46KfigdaZADInF1pcVda-WHq_trtB2AizibMC9ucvYBDWTnMe7m9la2xMJw2TrbOZwoVH5QfAr6qcEWfDdqQg,,&typo=1>
archives:
 5/2017 thru present https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/<https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fredfish.com%2fpipermail%2ffriam_redfish.com%2f&c=E,1,n645M9O_b6OxCed7Vb7MDTrxdeDVIQFGW3jusYQcqoWw7ine82zRlZ2HY8P3erCNntbKFwoxHJ19qor1Me0mwKER3EWCrqAUsO9yBqStPdYqsnGm&typo=1>
 1/2003 thru 6/2021  http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/

--
Merle Lefkoff, Ph.D.
Center for Emergent Diplomacy
emergentdiplomacy.org<https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2femergentdiplomacy.org&c=E,1,c73WoibuCIpF8IwGRMKwChtpKZ5mmxuJeae2c_wrNe7k9_fSuM4rHUCKLdNfxGyrCqlb9u0-30GiamaNgw0Gf23kM1KiGYHOS3WuQzGM33hmCtDXL8V0FSU,&typo=1>
Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA

mobile:  (303) 859-5609
skype:  merle.lelfkoff2
twitter: @merle110

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FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn UTC-6  https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2f%2f%2fbit.ly%2fvirtualfriam&c=E,1,fXaxJY7KkYJA9IrKtASScFDs0MQktKNoIvQTMN6xVeXKTV3VR9-5lrQITys4QIY55EjXolZiJBtzG0taurtV3TfRpM6OMVV5fEp2Ol5FPzwOoX4Jqg3elzA,&typo=1
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FRIAM-COMIC https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2ffriam-comic.blogspot.com%2f&c=E,1,xs2cf8jRsW_0TkKWGt2Eg2DBXwoJ_9O0ADaOYtXlWUv-aragZzDG4tFUnHPBwzm6iOyl_JiiObtCe-elQAcEHvNtp_TSqmDB1gBa9t6IssTW&typo=1
archives:
5/2017 thru present https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fredfish.com%2fpipermail%2ffriam_redfish.com%2f&c=E,1,8OmLl5wFwgx2yOSrQOBXsI9KvHifldM77yvL7ta7JBFuV2WvEoKsSjkjk2qnRlYnV_3gVjmoVxc6VKbxE5iwsjfQ3GfaFX4RHobJNO3DC9z0RIP06w,,&typo=1
1/2003 thru 6/2021  http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/

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FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv

Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn UTC-6  bit.ly/virtualfriam<https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fbit.ly%2fvirtualfriamun%2fsubscribe&c=E,1,SVpuaIlL84oOXOBTosOsZ5SnYC8qW8rxZfw-f5yWMotBYeBa1XV0Hw0JMjpayhxSZDsYboH9Eia5V5MJ7US-rXc7n05SFOsH3-jRpNCsUs0jlVmEPL2Eb4suEYe6&typo=1>

un/subscribe<https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fbit.ly%2fvirtualfriamun%2fsubscribe&c=E,1,SVpuaIlL84oOXOBTosOsZ5SnYC8qW8rxZfw-f5yWMotBYeBa1XV0Hw0JMjpayhxSZDsYboH9Eia5V5MJ7US-rXc7n05SFOsH3-jRpNCsUs0jlVmEPL2Eb4suEYe6&typo=1> http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com<https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fredfish.com%2fmailman%2flistinfo%2ffriam_redfish.com&c=E,1,R5TdxhwB0A_Q8-YcnOs4pcAxKAHxkkvvlafTf65KXHEa7sYB_Avq0EG8fD6NFGVEvDD089OdmSl3kOdxba4OSlJnnM1GuV3OM9MpZ1tWwg,,&typo=1>

FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/<https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2ffriam-comic.blogspot.com%2f&c=E,1,mnFWeuGWTgSNxrWxpy-UwZVqpmm7mma31Xoj_IddmQz5AmTHNdywvpjQHBEHMH5sTBBFhZBzaB8DeOUGLtDLR1BAG--8_Q-p33kkFJD_AduD&typo=1>

archives:

 5/2017 thru present https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/<https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fredfish.com%2fpipermail%2ffriam_redfish.com%2f&c=E,1,Hl8R8lPUtiBvWjdfDb5gKOyT3l5SpXq3nwUHBADjzq7hw1_fOj2e1iaGYaEBmOP7SD34NEy9pSdWoQb2YpS91XH7ngXz7Yv9y36H-Nddfim7Xg,,&typo=1>

 1/2003 thru 6/2021  http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/

.-- .- -. - / .- -.-. - .. --- -. ..--.. / -.-. --- -. .--- ..- --. .- - .
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn UTC-6  bit.ly/virtualfriam<https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fbit.ly%2fvirtualfriam&c=E,1,BcK6U7jvbfbv_OWA12cr5-9hWtb0N-Nn-myd8fuNO6ME5FJNcSPVu6JWMxA9YMpHjgS70MgDlFDzHzJIl7xUE9vFzEDgpWh7QjNKLxGJ2B1I_hwdxgJiqtFEmA,,&typo=1>
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FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/<https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2ffriam-comic.blogspot.com%2f&c=E,1,LEdajQ7Nl3mKDRNQJCPgvgO2klmzLgdUKrFsiqSidAaIZQjd0aHZkRSG47O35d3fSRjsILtBuIuneA8DnHIHJvSWN62_QaaA3grGMRs_xmObcBI,&typo=1>
archives:
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 1/2003 thru 6/2021  http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/

.-- .- -. - / .- -.-. - .. --- -. ..--.. / -.-. --- -. .--- ..- --. .- - .

FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv

Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn UTC-6  //bit.ly/virtualfriam<https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2f%2f%2fbit.ly%2fvirtualfriam&c=E,1,BlMXL9aJMG8ESvUNLzX1GjTqMB6lGRoMbV6vcpNXSBlwLLLYbBX427kyL2LbcxPIPE8C_TD_aH4xsmkJjEVoZQEY1AlcjMZqO4PBxzT_X90ntRc,&typo=1&ancr_add=1>

un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com<https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fredfish.com%2fmailman%2flistinfo%2ffriam_redfish.com&c=E,1,R3CC-2Og67U8us2WT8y10Wt_uVAFR4BIEkVyOd_gjOKp5Twxzn4LkqigNE2_ZezDrEcabRnu2w9pvXh9tjPEccO5ptaKIhaMEoPeGOkYFM0,&typo=1>

FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/<https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2ffriam-comic.blogspot.com%2f&c=E,1,IJKX2VKSovy4l3-I7mgu3uiaeWJjo3utDBAazdnyPIfuO-xOKaxxkp8DnvXFSxomT1-YcEVDsTl3hPP2iR3-jhWAisn04R4giPM2iq81cZQ7&typo=1>

archives:

 5/2017 thru present https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/<https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fredfish.com%2fpipermail%2ffriam_redfish.com%2f&c=E,1,_E54RdNiUrLY6UvMv45ihDo9x2HH9206BiOZUS2FDwHTRVRSL26gAZI46sjIoTjE-7rRVivR0akNuQaT4KmvPaTQ_W7cGI1Ng6YLIr-8q8M70DMeW2Ew&typo=1>

 1/2003 thru 6/2021  http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/

.-- .- -. - / .- -.-. - .. --- -. ..--.. / -.-. --- -. .--- ..- --. .- - .
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn UTC-6  https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2f%2f%2fbit.ly%2fvirtualfriam&c=E,1,8GHOp4XT15FSVr1TflojizWLCqusYlIQZxDspct-M59TZ5lf5tnZzbBYRmRCUrnJESBLrXWDz5pesXvAWVQ57y64WcN4XWJ-nDgPiaLDoPK5RvVPIg,,&typo=1
un/subscribe https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fredfish.com%2fmailman%2flistinfo%2ffriam_redfish.com&c=E,1,IqsaSUvL8cOVxkn-si-PakFWeWAyLhC1hqxK9JF0Yzjj2zpieWRqgB-aOevOxTLX-lWxioxYAByVHzcBCoUb8id6DORH8h3S32sW22LaFB0T_6U,&typo=1
FRIAM-COMIC https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2ffriam-comic.blogspot.com%2f&c=E,1,3mjpAHx69Gl5KOctPWmpB-9V369heKx4IrsPw7UQOFQEXt_Dk08e-I8X-VTfff2jYLqHtZC5LaoHcgz6LLplb9UUTPCydY4WZMOPxPVZXek,&typo=1
archives:
5/2017 thru present https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fredfish.com%2fpipermail%2ffriam_redfish.com%2f&c=E,1,Hgza0SNSf03q9D1IJ0WebUJp41rmA2PW-MACS2ROKlFPAMOz8vCWRurkdFGYV3EP0r--ktXRj_fdiZS3r53dQJicaJIT7lrLM7DqWT8CfR9pIikiYlf7q8HNww,,&typo=1
1/2003 thru 6/2021  http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/

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