[FRIAM] health care logistics
Steve Smith
sasmyth at swcp.com
Tue Jan 25 18:17:53 EST 2022
On 1/25/22 11:38 AM, Marcus Daniels wrote:
> https://goodmeat.co/process
>
15 years ago, my daughter did her PhD research in HPV... a great deal
of her time was spent "cloning human skin and giving it warts". She
was (is) a died-in-the-wool vegetarian and humanitarian and she was a
little squeamish about that aspect of her work, but couldn't put her
finger on why exactly. She gifted me a copy of the biography of
Henrietta Lacks which was fascinating. I don't know if her skin cells
were HeLa, I see lots of progress in the field of inducing skin cells to
develop into STEM cells (and even into embryos!) so I assume it was
possible and perhaps preferred for the same reason HeLa is used in other
fields.
I myself have been mostly vegetarian most of my adulthood and while I
still can be persuaded that meat-eating is something humans have evolved
to be good at, I believe as omnivores, we are also very capable of
living well on a vegetarian and even vegan diets. When I have deviated
from vegetarianism, it has been the usual suspects starting with bacon
and hamburgers but including chicken and steak. Most of my peers who
avoid red-meat don't seem to understand that every chicken-life only
yields a few 10-piece nugget McMeals or a couple of fajita plates. I
started my vegetarianism as a boycott against industrial meat-production
and the animal cruelty implicit in it, but now it is augmented/dominated
by my assumptions about planet-scale sustainability of same.
I think "growing meat in a vat" is no better (or worse) of a solution to
our global problems than replacing 4000lb ICE vehicles with 5000lb
EVs... while it might be "a good start" or part of a "transition
strategy" it ignores the first-order misunderstanding of the carrying
capacity of our biosphere (as discussed in earlier/alternate threads
here). Sure, if the 1% ers are the only ones that drive (Electric)
Hummers and eat 16oz Steaks (3D printed from vat grown muscle/bone/fat?)
daily (even weekly) then these solutions are probably close to optimal
for the moment (decade or two). But that is not the world I (want to)
live in, and one would hope 99% would not want to either (though there
is an aspirational logic to richy-rich wannabes who support/promote
obscene wealth because they imagine they themselves are on an arc to
that kind of imbalance).
Regarding meat-chickens. When COVID hit, the first thing I did was run
down to my local farm store and adopt 12 sex-linked chicks to raise for
eggs. I avoided hatching my own from fertilized eggs mainly because I
didn't want to take responsibility for the roughly 50% male chickens I
would get. Sex-Linked chicks are easily sexed because their gross
appearance is significantly different between genders. I understand
that the bulk of the males "culled" to send only laying hens to the
likes of me are pushed into the meat-production industry, though I know
in some contexts DaveW's and EricS's images of culled/discarded male
chicks (smokestacks like holocaust camps) are very real... Most other
meat animals are "harvested" young, as they reach their full growth
while remaining tender. Veal is an extreme version of this. Veal and
Pate' seem like good candidates for vat-growing.
My original point about neutering (male) pets and work animals was more
about blunting testosterone-driven behaviour (i.e. aggression,
dominance, and confinement resistance). The Libertarians here may want
to point out that human males are being neutered culturally and
circumstantially (and I don't entirely disagree, and I think the
resulting dissonance is a huge problem for society).
Grumble,
- Steve
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com> on behalf of Steve Smith
> <sasmyth at swcp.com>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 25, 2022 11:25 AM
> *To:* friam at redfish.com <friam at redfish.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] health care logistics
>
>
> On 1/25/22 8:48 AM, Frank Wimberly wrote:
>> Boneless chicken breasts come from roosters?
>
> Top hit on my google... not sure if US is very different from AU:
>
> https://www.chicken.org.au/are-meat-chickens-male-or-female/
> <https://www.chicken.org.au/are-meat-chickens-male-or-female/>
>
>> ---
>> Frank C. Wimberly
>> 140 Calle Ojo Feliz,
>> Santa Fe, NM 87505
>>
>> 505 670-9918
>> Santa Fe, NM
>>
>> On Tue, Jan 25, 2022, 8:45 AM Steve Smith <sasmyth at swcp.com
>> <mailto:sasmyth at swcp.com>> wrote:
>>
>> We neuter many/most male pets and beasts of burden, slaughter
>> many of them young (e.g. this is where most of our beef and
>> chicken come from).
>>
>> We do this for various reasons that are not entirely unrelated to
>> the larger conversation here...
>>
>> On 1/25/22 7:35 AM, David Eric Smith wrote:
>>> Never too late, Merle.
>>>
>>>> On Jan 25, 2022, at 9:32 AM, Merle Lefkoff
>>>> <merlelefkoff at gmail.com <mailto:merlelefkoff at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Yes, they should have drowned the boys.
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Jan 25, 2022 at 7:27 AM Frank Wimberly
>>>> <wimberly3 at gmail.com <mailto:wimberly3 at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> But
>>>>
>>>> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Female_infanticide_in_China#20th_century
>>>> <https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Female_infanticide_in_China#20th_century>
>>>>
>>>> ---
>>>> Frank C. Wimberly
>>>> 140 Calle Ojo Feliz,
>>>> Santa Fe, NM 87505
>>>>
>>>> 505 670-9918
>>>> Santa Fe, NM
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Jan 25, 2022, 7:16 AM Merle Lefkoff
>>>> <merlelefkoff at gmail.com <mailto:merlelefkoff at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Dave is right. Development experts have known for a
>>>> long time that when girls get educated and women hold
>>>> jobs outside the home they are much more likely to
>>>> control childbearing. However, the culture must change
>>>> everywhere, and it happens quite slowly with lots of
>>>> pushback. Check out the new protest and direct action
>>>> movement that's happening with young men demonstrating
>>>> in the streets in S. Korea. ("A Vicious Anti-Feminist
>>>> Backlash Stuns South Korea", Globe And Mail, 1/22.)
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Jan 25, 2022 at 12:40 AM Prof David West
>>>> <profwest at fastmail.fm <mailto:profwest at fastmail.fm>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> It has been known for a long time that the most
>>>> effective means of birth / population control was
>>>> educating girls, followed closely by empowering
>>>> girls, e.g., with micro-loans to start businesses.
>>>> I remember studying this topic way back in the 80s
>>>> in my anthropology graduate program.
>>>>
>>>> davew
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Jan 24, 2022, at 9:02 PM, Marcus Daniels wrote:
>>>>> Merle wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> < China's population has stopped
>>>>> growing--primarily because there are more urban
>>>>> educated workers, especially women. >
>>>>>
>>>>> Estimate in Hawken's book was the 6th largest
>>>>> potential reduction for CO2 drawdown came from
>>>>> educating girls. His reference was:
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.1206964
>>>>> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fwww.science.org%2fdoi%2f10.1126%2fscience.1206964&c=E,1,dhZqId6BmX_lZAkiZ4KqytELCYK4cwA4xLz977cmeLfMrTYrhP3BmklQPOLEU4fwWN1lRQM2UxbXsMWAXVEDer4Yykb7kz6tIFR9uWjkYw,,&typo=1>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>> *From:* Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com
>>>>> <mailto:friam-bounces at redfish.com>> on behalf of
>>>>> Merle Lefkoff <merlelefkoff at gmail.com
>>>>> <mailto:merlelefkoff at gmail.com>>
>>>>> *Sent:* Monday, January 24, 2022 9:40 PM
>>>>> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee
>>>>> Group <friam at redfish.com <mailto:friam at redfish.com>>
>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] health care logistics
>>>>>
>>>>> China's population has stopped growing--primarily
>>>>> because there are more urban educated workers,
>>>>> especially women.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Jan 24, 2022 at 7:11 PM Frank Wimberly
>>>>> <wimberly3 at gmail.com <mailto:wimberly3 at gmail.com>>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Excellent, Marcus.
>>>>>
>>>>> Eric, if it's less than 90% it still would
>>>>> have be significant. Two problems, "God" has
>>>>> tricks for making babies. As for 1 child per
>>>>> couple didn't they "terminate" some babies
>>>>> (not fetuses, feti?), particularly females?
>>>>> My impression is that their population has
>>>>> grown substantially notwithstanding those
>>>>> policies.
>>>>>
>>>>> Frank
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ---
>>>>> Frank C. Wimberly
>>>>> 140 Calle Ojo Feliz,
>>>>> Santa Fe, NM 87505
>>>>>
>>>>> 505 670-9918
>>>>> Santa Fe, NM
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Jan 24, 2022, 6:38 PM Marcus Daniels
>>>>> <marcus at snoutfarm.com
>>>>> <mailto:marcus at snoutfarm.com>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Before I launch into a diatribe about why
>>>>> the hell we can't agree to basic, never
>>>>> mind interesting things: I'd just like
>>>>> to report that the James Webb telescope is
>>>>> in L2 orbit. Score one for the
>>>>> negotiating, patient,
>>>>> subtlety-appreciating scientists and their
>>>>> counterparts in government.
>>>>>
>>>>> Marcus
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>> *From:* Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com
>>>>> <mailto:friam-bounces at redfish.com>> on
>>>>> behalf of David Eric Smith
>>>>> <desmith at santafe.edu
>>>>> <mailto:desmith at santafe.edu>>
>>>>> *Sent:* Monday, January 24, 2022 6:01 PM
>>>>> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied
>>>>> Complexity Coffee Group <friam at redfish.com
>>>>> <mailto:friam at redfish.com>>
>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] health care logistics
>>>>>
>>>>> You know, as I read your characterization,
>>>>> Marcus, it took me back to Hannah Arendt’s
>>>>> description of feudal Europe and the role
>>>>> of the Rothschilds and other big Jewish
>>>>> quasi-stateless fixer families in relation
>>>>> to the feudal lords. Fussy and indirect
>>>>> seems somehow very close to the right
>>>>> picture of the stateless ones navigating
>>>>> always through the cracks and seams,
>>>>> compared to the blunt moves of the ones
>>>>> who had states.
>>>>>
>>>>> I have some discomfort that this doesn’t
>>>>> quite map. Yet it seems not fully dissimilar.
>>>>>
>>>>> Eric
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Jan 24, 2022, at 7:19 PM, Marcus
>>>>>> Daniels <marcus at snoutfarm.com
>>>>>> <mailto:marcus at snoutfarm.com>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> SFI sponsorship seems like very much a
>>>>>> fideistic declaration. It would be
>>>>>> interesting to see how that influence
>>>>>> network feeds into a D.C. influencer
>>>>>> network and real money. There are some
>>>>>> linkages, like Brookings, but
>>>>>> leverage-wise it all seems much softer
>>>>>> than with LANL and the DOE. And it all
>>>>>> seems so fussy and indirect compared to
>>>>>> slapping down a few billion dollars to
>>>>>> build a Starship. That's the appeal of
>>>>>> Musk: I'm f'ing doing this.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *From:* Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com
>>>>>> <mailto:friam-bounces at redfish.com>> on
>>>>>> behalf of glen <gepropella at gmail.com
>>>>>> <mailto:gepropella at gmail.com>>
>>>>>> *Sent:* Monday, January 24, 2022 5:08 PM
>>>>>> *To:* friam at redfish.com
>>>>>> <mailto:friam at redfish.com>
>>>>>> <friam at redfish.com
>>>>>> <mailto:friam at redfish.com>>
>>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] health care logistics
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Well, that ain't true, either. Like
>>>>>> Epstein, when you "invest" in the SFI or
>>>>>> people like Steven Pinker or Bill
>>>>>> Clinton, you're simply transferring from
>>>>>> one store to another ... buying
>>>>>> influence. If, e.g., the CIA contracts
>>>>>> with the SFI to adapt a CAS modeling tool
>>>>>> into a broad spectrum simulation tool,
>>>>>> they are not only buying a (questionable)
>>>>>> piece of software; they're buying
>>>>>> *leverage* over people's salaries,
>>>>>> loyalty, etc. So those VCs *will* see
>>>>>> that money again, perhaps much less of
>>>>>> it, depending on the efficiency of the
>>>>>> transaction, or in fringe storage types
>>>>>> (able to get past the receptionist after
>>>>>> eating over-priced peri-Mexican food in
>>>>>> order to have tea with smart people).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 1/24/22 15:31, Marcus Daniels wrote:
>>>>>> > Some of them sponsor SFI for goodness' sake!
>>>>>> They'll never see THAT money again!
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> glen
>>>>>> Theorem 3. There exists a double master
>>>>>> function.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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>>>>>> http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/
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>>>>>> 1/2003 thru 6/2021
>>>>>> http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/
>>>>>> <http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/>
>>>>>>
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>>>>>> FRIAM-COMIC
>>>>>> https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2ffriam-comic.blogspot.com%2f&c=E,1,Pc0NT3hYkY85nAvXUHgVTxcd9orHKeaV3UTspAYNCCjbGcwWm5Krr-Bu9pMqXzSNGNWLskR3WsJC7fIUFxKpaAkB1Yp3XwdL-glIYs1tF51xaCY,&typo=1
>>>>>> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2ffriam-comic.blogspot.com%2f&c=E,1,Pc0NT3hYkY85nAvXUHgVTxcd9orHKeaV3UTspAYNCCjbGcwWm5Krr-Bu9pMqXzSNGNWLskR3WsJC7fIUFxKpaAkB1Yp3XwdL-glIYs1tF51xaCY,&typo=1>
>>>>>> archives:
>>>>>> 5/2017 thru present
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>>>>>> 1/2003 thru 6/2021
>>>>>> http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/
>>>>>> <http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> .-- .- -. - / .- -.-. - .. --- -. ..--.. /
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>>>>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
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>>>>> FRIAM-COMIC
>>>>> http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/
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>>>>> 1/2003 thru 6/2021
>>>>> http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/
>>>>> <http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> .-- .- -. - / .- -.-. - .. --- -. ..--.. /
>>>>> -.-. --- -. .--- ..- --. .- - .
>>>>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
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>>>>> archives:
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>>>>> 1/2003 thru 6/2021
>>>>> http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/
>>>>> <http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>>
>>>>> Merle Lefkoff, Ph.D.
>>>>> Center for Emergent Diplomacy
>>>>> emergentdiplomacy.org
>>>>> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2femergentdiplomacy.org&c=E,1,l1x0pLZu8pBi_WkdggPVBNl27a1btPqgJdg7abjNZUsC1ll3ODbH0gsfLSIWID40_e4ePaWNfve97Qlxdj4eybTTPG_jRSInqNCiNKHW&typo=1>
>>>>> Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> mobile: (303) 859-5609
>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>>>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
>>>>> Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn UTC-6
>>>>> bit.ly/virtualfriam
>>>>> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fbit.ly%2fvirtualfriam&c=E,1,Gg0E32TU65wJU262OV54o9YOctOysLPaaNbYmulvYlRWzq9VE8Q6HOVw8vXuqZhqnaTgVt9laYh2ISC1Zsf4JLRXYxbqXdCiwBHoFCy3Qdv9PVU,&typo=1>
>>>>> un/subscribe
>>>>> http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
>>>>> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fredfish.com%2fmailman%2flistinfo%2ffriam_redfish.com&c=E,1,i5phGx8vuTcCuiEKldfWjMbnHyu7pufCMv5LO-XJoSjqdnonVyzpPEm8BiFmffdxCJ9PMXJPysLQQB2hBzZXLoQtzy_xCe4xGdt9PmMT9PDAVA,,&typo=1>
>>>>> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/
>>>>> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2ffriam-comic.blogspot.com%2f&c=E,1,gB2Bg5D6Q8hrOnTjH9UlZQn_J3mlBcxU9z8lVfayV1bBX8Ljfm78jSqNZrTO8UWwp7lik6khxi-aerCorp6teJzf4Pd_q2mQvZFlURtSymfp9oVRL_GkGubv6zU,&typo=1>
>>>>> archives:
>>>>> 5/2017 thru present
>>>>> https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/
>>>>> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fredfish.com%2fpipermail%2ffriam_redfish.com%2f&c=E,1,dpJ-JHCbwB7gUX9TRRWwIF-NJo5phhwFxjoo4e2n2n3GWL5mQcZIMpe0k6zWYeDRGUdFZko8NXs4WR-lgZdcnfHuT25NBT6-rh5MKLjRe0W2WK9c1SU,&typo=1>
>>>>> 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/
>>>>> <http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> .-- .- -. - / .- -.-. - .. --- -. ..--.. / -.-. ---
>>>> -. .--- ..- --. .- - .
>>>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
>>>> Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn UTC-6
>>>> bit.ly/virtualfriam
>>>> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fbit.ly%2fvirtualfriam&c=E,1,XRi5xetvjbYVN_7f8n33iYU3W5r0nKf0QvXFNVCAGKETH8ZRCsCldmMxR_9mecHjoLkeajfSHY95QF9bUfFF5w6lQYsTXAyDyAQldDfD4fAN21ESP7qhVAUwG18n&typo=1>
>>>> un/subscribe
>>>> http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
>>>> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fredfish.com%2fmailman%2flistinfo%2ffriam_redfish.com&c=E,1,WCcljRnyrUtIJBXalHhBOcDgFGULWZIZUtpJFWSPFUhMQZ4sDqUGKYlueV0XETLdhTi3oNrr_RmJ6jDKv2-Vz7OWiYJijTgA6fIglqSND-wODUqv5VAD&typo=1>
>>>> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/
>>>> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2ffriam-comic.blogspot.com%2f&c=E,1,IthGBoXsp18JUHm1l2NvdUmd6pD4yV6IYMhCuYWYawmCW-dtycT6auT7cR7IlFDieIV1nGU3YrLeL3dlQK5WOY6upkMDm9K2x7qI465OHdLUpT23&typo=1>
>>>> archives:
>>>> 5/2017 thru present
>>>> https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/
>>>> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fredfish.com%2fpipermail%2ffriam_redfish.com%2f&c=E,1,HBlNtyI_HQu8YWBnwiXqYuVf84hQbzsrlHs3ysHGR7lDXNPj330smTNEBBuaP1xqUTUweTyomzYEVp8NmyNfv6N8-y3XgpAMm93GvgttibjU5cRZW3V9uJNjdoA,&typo=1>
>>>> 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/
>>>> <http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Merle Lefkoff, Ph.D.
>>>> Center for Emergent Diplomacy
>>>> emergentdiplomacy.org
>>>> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2femergentdiplomacy.org&c=E,1,hMHD61hjErM4LgUdk3SZAd4YlMCrKghmyNT685L-cGm1hpHuk1DP7kS3ZZUMWAFsLbl0WfsMfqt4rubNrsdQcYZbEudYzk7p106IlqSp-wnLvB4ta08E&typo=1>
>>>> Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
>>>>
>>>> mobile: (303) 859-5609
>>>> skype: merle.lelfkoff2
>>>> twitter: @merle110
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> .-- .- -. - / .- -.-. - .. --- -. ..--.. / -.-. --- -.
>>>> .--- ..- --. .- - .
>>>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
>>>> Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn UTC-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam
>>>> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fbit.ly%2fvirtualfriam&c=E,1,LP5lCHV9y0XRFkua4WxxDBVDPgF8Df4c-MUzHMFgVodrkyLcY3j4erjKUPklh9Y34AQfncRFoit49KMZ3gbwD5JOb1IZuuHO5uffLltfxFPtzxARAwo6J_M7pe8C&typo=1>
>>>> un/subscribe
>>>> http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
>>>> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fredfish.com%2fmailman%2flistinfo%2ffriam_redfish.com&c=E,1,j_j2YegglprSstce3gkhK96t949E-JyZ0BnRNtDmJOzY4ydxaw2rE1NvD9_D-NSSGw9h80ooCXsOLebrQwnl1v2oR-avnV7SQGPAJ6p1ncitT7ARyuWO03aX60I,&typo=1>
>>>> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/
>>>> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2ffriam-comic.blogspot.com%2f&c=E,1,ojCwmLF0TfKKrLyca2N9r2JlW4i5WDLy4nQpAem3ySzOaF-mOksDspBIFpPyNBt1NjXz97ibfzUGLpUKEd1h_uCwoks-oJOtBMfyBian80pKlxA5cBZfDQ,,&typo=1>
>>>> archives:
>>>> 5/2017 thru present
>>>> https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/
>>>> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fredfish.com%2fpipermail%2ffriam_redfish.com%2f&c=E,1,O9nOWUVGVCcjJz985EKAtn7vjbqcXxYMsEiRXVhvVmBzvyNmxFOh5oi1X1IfbxluN67RcOMLvzCdd9RF_IfyHppmQVZtp-ol3Wv8NbUkQWJtpMAcR8fK&typo=1>
>>>> 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/
>>>> <http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> .-- .- -. - / .- -.-. - .. --- -. ..--.. / -.-. --- -. .---
>>>> ..- --. .- - .
>>>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
>>>> Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn UTC-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam
>>>> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fbit.ly%2fvirtualfriam&c=E,1,4dV4NXIARSWCtcadS54VEJ6TDkhkuVqmUbxvYCgEB3uDzrcAn0nOCk5zo1seSIgJ-A9exANaQzuhKUILzmMOtIVvosAL0sPayT-Z34Bq1xBW95Rj_UNBvzZveA,,&typo=1>
>>>> un/subscribe
>>>> http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
>>>> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fredfish.com%2fmailman%2flistinfo%2ffriam_redfish.com&c=E,1,V7HOJrghjq76oXROQXW-PmyS9bkk_AxbvrBW0tw7KpJEoCtS-ypP680H4yZNfhRBthR8LUUEEh_uGXifnQGEZuNXed9zqvsyp_yNZH9gY0IR9AG4X9c,&typo=1>
>>>> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/
>>>> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2ffriam-comic.blogspot.com%2f&c=E,1,NQocVMUVW6Js80-U1MoKk46KfigdaZADInF1pcVda-WHq_trtB2AizibMC9ucvYBDWTnMe7m9la2xMJw2TrbOZwoVH5QfAr6qcEWfDdqQg,,&typo=1>
>>>> archives:
>>>> 5/2017 thru present
>>>> https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/
>>>> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fredfish.com%2fpipermail%2ffriam_redfish.com%2f&c=E,1,n645M9O_b6OxCed7Vb7MDTrxdeDVIQFGW3jusYQcqoWw7ine82zRlZ2HY8P3erCNntbKFwoxHJ19qor1Me0mwKER3EWCrqAUsO9yBqStPdYqsnGm&typo=1>
>>>> 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/
>>>> <http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Merle Lefkoff, Ph.D.
>>>> Center for Emergent Diplomacy
>>>> emergentdiplomacy.org
>>>> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2femergentdiplomacy.org&c=E,1,c73WoibuCIpF8IwGRMKwChtpKZ5mmxuJeae2c_wrNe7k9_fSuM4rHUCKLdNfxGyrCqlb9u0-30GiamaNgw0Gf23kM1KiGYHOS3WuQzGM33hmCtDXL8V0FSU,&typo=1>
>>>> Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
>>>>
>>>> mobile: (303) 859-5609
>>>> skype: merle.lelfkoff2
>>>> twitter: @merle110
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> .-- .- -. - / .- -.-. - .. --- -. ..--.. / -.-. --- -. .--- ..-
>>>> --. .- - .
>>>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
>>>> Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn UTC-6
>>>> https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2f%2f%2fbit.ly%2fvirtualfriam&c=E,1,fXaxJY7KkYJA9IrKtASScFDs0MQktKNoIvQTMN6xVeXKTV3VR9-5lrQITys4QIY55EjXolZiJBtzG0taurtV3TfRpM6OMVV5fEp2Ol5FPzwOoX4Jqg3elzA,&typo=1
>>>> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2f%2f%2fbit.ly%2fvirtualfriam&c=E,1,fXaxJY7KkYJA9IrKtASScFDs0MQktKNoIvQTMN6xVeXKTV3VR9-5lrQITys4QIY55EjXolZiJBtzG0taurtV3TfRpM6OMVV5fEp2Ol5FPzwOoX4Jqg3elzA,&typo=1>
>>>> un/subscribe
>>>> https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fredfish.com%2fmailman%2flistinfo%2ffriam_redfish.com&c=E,1,A0gSjH8VMaFVh0vWTgD23OoYjyTUD4xTnY-_ZVnLDjpTADkmiIcUxyIxUah9hyeZ5Qj0Zd9DhjyeG7u89JR6TSRPRDkUZwZsqyb24k36tNTtaPeGZDOoxw,,&typo=1
>>>> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fredfish.com%2fmailman%2flistinfo%2ffriam_redfish.com&c=E,1,A0gSjH8VMaFVh0vWTgD23OoYjyTUD4xTnY-_ZVnLDjpTADkmiIcUxyIxUah9hyeZ5Qj0Zd9DhjyeG7u89JR6TSRPRDkUZwZsqyb24k36tNTtaPeGZDOoxw,,&typo=1>
>>>> FRIAM-COMIC
>>>> https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2ffriam-comic.blogspot.com%2f&c=E,1,xs2cf8jRsW_0TkKWGt2Eg2DBXwoJ_9O0ADaOYtXlWUv-aragZzDG4tFUnHPBwzm6iOyl_JiiObtCe-elQAcEHvNtp_TSqmDB1gBa9t6IssTW&typo=1
>>>> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2ffriam-comic.blogspot.com%2f&c=E,1,xs2cf8jRsW_0TkKWGt2Eg2DBXwoJ_9O0ADaOYtXlWUv-aragZzDG4tFUnHPBwzm6iOyl_JiiObtCe-elQAcEHvNtp_TSqmDB1gBa9t6IssTW&typo=1>
>>>> archives:
>>>> 5/2017 thru present
>>>> https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fredfish.com%2fpipermail%2ffriam_redfish.com%2f&c=E,1,8OmLl5wFwgx2yOSrQOBXsI9KvHifldM77yvL7ta7JBFuV2WvEoKsSjkjk2qnRlYnV_3gVjmoVxc6VKbxE5iwsjfQ3GfaFX4RHobJNO3DC9z0RIP06w,,&typo=1
>>>> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fredfish.com%2fpipermail%2ffriam_redfish.com%2f&c=E,1,8OmLl5wFwgx2yOSrQOBXsI9KvHifldM77yvL7ta7JBFuV2WvEoKsSjkjk2qnRlYnV_3gVjmoVxc6VKbxE5iwsjfQ3GfaFX4RHobJNO3DC9z0RIP06w,,&typo=1>
>>>> 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/
>>>> <http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/>
>>>
>>>
>>> .-- .- -. - / .- -.-. - .. --- -. ..--.. / -.-. --- -. .--- ..- --. .- - .
>>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
>>> Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn UTC-6bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe <http://bit.ly/virtualfriamun/subscribe> http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com <http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com>
>>> FRIAM-COMIChttp://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ <http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/>
>>> archives:
>>> 5/2017 thru presenthttps://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/ <https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/>
>>> 1/2003 thru 6/2021http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/ <http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/>
>>
>> .-- .- -. - / .- -.-. - .. --- -. ..--.. / -.-. --- -. .--- ..-
>> --. .- - .
>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
>> Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn UTC-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam
>> <http://bit.ly/virtualfriam>
>> un/subscribe
>> http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
>> <http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com>
>> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/
>> <http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/>
>> archives:
>> 5/2017 thru present
>> https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/
>> <https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/>
>> 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/
>> <http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/>
>>
>>
>> .-- .- -. - / .- -.-. - .. --- -. ..--.. / -.-. --- -. .--- ..- --. .- - .
>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
>> Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn UTC-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam
>> un/subscribehttp://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com <http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com>
>> FRIAM-COMIChttp://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ <http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/>
>> archives:
>> 5/2017 thru presenthttps://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/ <https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/>
>> 1/2003 thru 6/2021http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/ <http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/>
>
> .-- .- -. - / .- -.-. - .. --- -. ..--.. / -.-. --- -. .--- ..- --. .- - .
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn UTC-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam
> un/subscribehttp://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
> FRIAM-COMIChttp://friam-comic.blogspot.com/
> archives:
> 5/2017 thru presenthttps://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/
> 1/2003 thru 6/2021http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/
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