[FRIAM] On Apple Podcasts: Solving Tornadoes: Woke Meteorology
Steve Smith
sasmyth at swcp.com
Thu Sep 7 18:06:10 EDT 2023
Fascinating (to me) how water (the H20 molecule, it's phases, mechanical
modes, radiative coupling, chemistry, aggregate thermodynamics, etc) is
central to such a widely distributed space-time regime of morpho and
teleodynamic phenomena spanning (sub)cellular to organism to
super-organism (herds, schools, forests, prairies, ecosystems) and also
planetary hydro/cryo/biosphere scale weather/climate/???.
There may be evidence of water being significantly relevant to
solar/planetary and even galactic scales but at least *up-to* planetary
scales and down to "molecular scales", indeed "Water is WEIRD" as Hywel
reminds us through Nick. Is this merely another name for our ignorance
or is it acutely anthropocentric because it defines the Goldilocks
region our form of consciousness/life emerged/exists/thrives in? Water
is weirdly relevant to human-scale interests?
Spanning 19 decimal orders of magnitude, from 10^-10m to 10^9 meters ?
And in time? vibrational frequency(ies) of water (wavelength(s) in
micrometers) vs speed of sound (1500 m/sec)? 9 orders(decimal) of
magnitude?
I have been fascinated by the quasi-crystalline structures that have
been both discovered scientifically and invoked woo-woo-ly such as
described in Mae-Wan Ho's Rainbow Water/Worm, AND it's implications
around the physics of /Life Itself/.
https://www.worldscientific.com/worldscibooks/10.1142/6928#t=aboutBook
<https://www.worldscientific.com/worldscibooks/10.1142/6928#t=aboutBook>
And little or none of it might be relevant to the "physics of swirlies"
(RIP Doug Roberts)...
in the bigger/broader question of meteorology as a coherent discipline
vs "clabboring together of ..." some (unpublished)work I did 15 years
ago with Deana Pennington
<https://scholar.google.com/citations?user=PFifM5MAAAAJ&hl=en> on the
topic of the emergence of new scientific disciplines/paradigms would
suggest that this precise level of dis/mis-organization and apparent
"clabboring" and "incompatable" is an earmark of an impending
phase-shift (and in fact what might represent the emergence of a new
field and/or new paradigms)? I highly recommend Deanna's entire corpus
for those interested in the meta-topic of scientific
collaboration/understanding/processes, especially in the bio/eco/climate
sciences. We have not worked closely since she moved from UNM to UTEP
a decade ago... she thrives there best I can tell. I no longer do
anything useful beyond gadfly-about myself. Some /Laurels/ make for
better resting than others...
- Steve
/ May the laurels you rest on be the fruit of living in interesting
times? /(to mangle/mashup/clabber-up some aphorisms)
On 9/7/23 1:10 PM, Roger Critchlow wrote:
> Anyone who needs to call "woke" to make a scientific argument has lost
> my ear. An attention seeking proto-populist weatherman.
>
> The electrostatics of individual water molecules, that the hydrogens
> have some positive charge and the lone pairs of oxygen have some
> negative charge (which is actually a consequence of the molecule
> geometry), is all averaged into the thermodynamic behavior. That
> gaseous water vapor and liquid water vapor droplets coexist is one way
> the gas - liquid equilibrium can roll. Are the droplets drying out or
> getting wetter decides which way the heat is moving. The amount of
> surface area between the liquid and gas phases facilitates the rate of
> heat transfer/drying/wetting.
>
> The fundamental delusion is thinking you can explain the weather
> better than simply blaming it on the gods. We know the basic
> principles involved, but the variety of ways it can work out continues
> to surprise us.
>
> -- rec --
>
> On Thu, Sep 7, 2023 at 8:54 AM Nicholas Thompson
> <thompnickson2 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> thanks Pieter for giving a hear. He almost certainly is a crack
> pot (he has an "only I can fix it" thing going) but is he wrong
> about everything? He makes a big deal about the special
> properties of water molecules. He argues that these are created
> not by the geometric properties of the molecule per se but by the
> electrostatic (?!) gradient created by the structure, a
> distinction he admits is subtle, but insists is absolutely
> crucial. He says at one point that water vapor itself is rare and
> that water remains in minuscule droplet form or (??????) sometimes
> forms a plasma. Some how this leads him to the conclusion that
> convection is a confection.
>
> I do have sympathy for his general assertion that meteorology is
> an incoherent clabboring together of incompatible ways of talking
> and thinking.
>
> This is one of those moments when I profoundly miss Hywel White.
> One of his aphorisms was "Water is /*WEIRD!"*/
> /*
> */
> /*Nick
> */
>
> On Thu, Sep 7, 2023 at 12:57 AM Pieter Steenekamp
> <pieters at randcontrols.co.za> wrote:
>
> I listened to the podcast and my opinion is that this
> guy, James McGinn, is a crackpot.
>
> On Thu, 7 Sept 2023 at 05:28, Nicholas Thompson
> <thompnickson2 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> *Hi, all,*
> *
> *
> *I was casting about for a podcast on meteorology and
> stumbled on this guy. I can’t tell if he’s a total raging
> loon. he says some interesting things about the properties
> of water and then claims that convection is a myth! I
> could not find any trace of him on the web except this
> podcast. The one thing he says that caught my attention is
> that meteorologists imply that air masses have structural
> properties that would allow, say, in light air mass to
> hold a loft, a heavier one. Having red hundreds of
> forecast discussions, I sort of know what he’s talking about.*
> *
> *
> *
> *
> *?????????!!!!!!!!*
> *Nick.*
> *Solving Tornadoes: Woke Meteorology*
> James McGinn
>
> Exposing the incompetence of the current meteorological
> paradigm on storm theory and introducing a new,
> scientifically competent theory of storms and atmospheric
> flow.
>
> Listen on Apple Podcasts:
> https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/solving-tornadoes-woke-meteorology/id1489185715
>
>
>
> Sent from my Dumb Phone
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