[FRIAM] [[Narcissism Again]again]
Steven A Smith
sasmyth at swcp.com
Sun Jan 29 10:25:03 EST 2017
Nick-
>
> Steve,
>
> For me, there are only two questions I want you to ask yourself:
>
> Is the Trump administration /likely to do/ things that will
> irrevocably decrease the quality of life of people you care about?
>
yes
>
> (How widely you cast that net is your business.)
>
It is ultimately my business, but the narrower I (or you, or Donald
Trump) casts it, the more likely that our "self" interest is going to
lead to small and unenlightened consequences. I believe that Marcus
coined (or a least introduced it into this conversation) the idea that a
significant property of our (dis)loyal opposition is that they live in a
small world and do many things to seek to keep it that way. Misogyny,
xenophobia, homophobia, are all acutely specific examples of this.
>
> And,
>
> Is there anything we can do to alter that probability in any small degree?
>
There are myriad things we can do and I think the problem is one of
finding focus and traction. If I throw MY measly cash at the ACLU but
fail to show up at the processes required to get my local demigog (think
Susanna Martinez) out of office, then I may have made a less than
optimal decision.
I *think* your handwringing is merited, we DO have a BIG problem, but
*I* think that doing anything and everything you can think of is a good
start whilst seeking more optimal solutions that don't make us all feel
as helpless and without traction as many of us do?
- Steve
>
> That’s all I am asking.
>
> Nick
>
> Nicholas S. Thompson
>
> Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology
>
> Clark University
>
> http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/
> <http://home.earthlink.net/%7Enickthompson/naturaldesigns/>
>
> *From:*Friam [mailto:friam-bounces at redfish.com] *On Behalf Of *Steven
> A Smith
> *Sent:* Saturday, January 28, 2017 9:50 PM
> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
> <friam at redfish.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] [[Narcissism Again]again]
>
> Nick -
>
> I know I don't always seem to take your questions seriously, but I
> generally do.
>
> I DO think the computer industry HAS effectively contributed to a
> certain kind of isolation. On the other hand, here we are, most of us
> able to participate in a complex discussion, halfway around the world
> from one another (or not), many of us unable/unwilling to actually
> *attend* the Mother Church as it were (FriAM coffee klatch) because of
> computer technology. But again on the first hand, we sit around in
> coffee shops ignoring one another while chatting with friends or
> colleagues 7 time zones away?!
>
> I believe that every form of technological "leverage" follows the
> metaphor at least far enough to include the "loss of sensitivity" on
> the strong-end of the lever. Sure, with the right lever, you can
> heave a 1 ton boulder, but can you gently tweak the last 12 ounces of
> force to *gently* move it off equilibrium? So I'm not sure HOW to
> maintain sensitivity in the context of such high leverage. The age of
> Transportation, Communications, etc. Brought huge societal problems
> which have either leveled out, or sadly, more likely, normalized.
>
> As for the barfight, I'll let you know... and just fair warning, if
> you take wagers, put your money on *the other guy*, I might be
> scrappy, but about all I have going for me any more is mass, the
> ability to take a beating, and a willingness to gouge eyes when required.
>
> - Steve
>
> On 1/28/17 2:31 PM, Nick Thompson wrote:
>
> Steve –
>
> Is there any way in which the computer industry has contributed to
> the narcissistic pandemic that is sweeping the world. Is there
> anything that participants in the computer industry could do tip
> the world back toward a fact-based attractor?
>
> If the answer to that question is no, then I suppose that starting
> that barfight might be your highest and best use. Let me know
> which bar you are going to, so I can come and watch.
>
> But I think the question is yes.
>
> Nick
>
> Nicholas S. Thompson
>
> Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology
>
> Clark University
>
> http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/
> <http://home.earthlink.net/%7Enickthompson/naturaldesigns/>
>
> *From:*Friam [mailto:friam-bounces at redfish.com] *On Behalf Of
> *Steven A Smith
> *Sent:* Saturday, January 28, 2017 1:15 PM
> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
> <friam at redfish.com> <mailto:friam at redfish.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] [[Narcissism Again]again]
>
> Toolkit? This rusty old box filled with rusty things that once
> resembled sharp tools and useful fasteners?
>
> I was thinking that if we *all* burned one gallon of petrol *less*
> a month (and everyone "like us") the demand would drop
> commensurately and the cost/value proposition for the pipelines we
> all love to hate would (eventually) drop below a certain threshold.
>
> Similarly, if we *all* made it a point to have one *more*
> thoughtful conversation (not just a rant) with those not already
> in the choir, we might reverse the tide of *ugly* populism and
> replace it with something more human (maybe still a form of
> populism, but not nationalistic/xenophobic/misogynistic?).
>
> If we *all* quit worrying about how the Trump Ascension was going
> to hurt *our* personal context and recognized how it was going to
> hurt (or in some twisted or strange way help) the larger context
> and then only consider how our personal context would be effected
> in turn by the larger context (is a happier, healthier, more
> informed society good or bad for you and your family? vs can I
> pay lower taxes, get more government services and be afforded less
> expensive access to other resources nominally part of the commons?)
>
> et cetera, ad nauseum
>
> I know I'm preaching (somewhat) to the choir here, time to take my
> own advice and go start a barfight with a Trumpian or something,
> - Steve
>
>
> Ok Steve,
>
> The only reason to accept responsibility is to Take Charge.
>
> I have been able to think of only one concrete thing that I
> can do with my limited set of skills: Write Apple and tell
> them to stop calling new products “I-this” and “I-that.” When
> are they going to release the WE-phone.
>
> You must have something in your tool kit more effective than that!
>
> Nick
>
> Nicholas S. Thompson
>
> Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology
>
> Clark University
>
> http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/
> <http://home.earthlink.net/%7Enickthompson/naturaldesigns/>
>
> *From:*Friam [mailto:friam-bounces at redfish.com] *On Behalf Of
> *Steven A Smith
> *Sent:* Saturday, January 28, 2017 9:38 AM
> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
> <friam at redfish.com> <mailto:friam at redfish.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] [[Narcissism Again]again]
>
>
>
>
>
> What can WE hobbits do?
>
> Scratch our hairy knuckles and indulge in second dinnerses?
>
> Fun aside, I DO appreciate your sentiment here and agree that
> the Narcissist in Chief is at least partly a (focused)
> reflection of our own worst qualities, and *perhaps* if we
> tend our own garden even a little, it will help with the
> greater picture.
>
> - Candide
>
>
>
> Nick
>
> Nicholas S. Thompson
>
> Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology
>
> Clark University
>
> http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/
> <http://home.earthlink.net/%7Enickthompson/naturaldesigns/>
>
> *From:*Friam [mailto:friam-bounces at redfish.com] *On Behalf
> Of *Jochen Fromm
> *Sent:* Saturday, January 28, 2017 1:39 AM
> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
> <friam at redfish.com> <mailto:friam at redfish.com>; Friam
> <Friam at redfish.com> <mailto:Friam at redfish.com>
> *Cc:* penny thompson <penny.thompson at earthlink.net>
> <mailto:penny.thompson at earthlink.net>; 'Bruce Simon'
> <bjs108 at yahoo.com> <mailto:bjs108 at yahoo.com>; 'Dix
> McComas' <dixmccomas2 at gmail.com>
> <mailto:dixmccomas2 at gmail.com>; 'Grant Franks'
> <grantfranks at earthlink.net> <mailto:grantfranks at earthlink.net>
> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] [[Narcissism Again]again]
>
> Yes, agree. Trump’s point of view is “Whatever I can win
> with is true.” And if he wins with what we call “a lie”,
> it is true for him. Exactly.
>
> If you ask how we can counter and resist him, then I would
> say peaceful protests are the right way. The women's march
> was impressive, and the rebellion of the social media
> managers from the national parks is really refreshing. Who
> would have thought that the national parks would strike
> back? Like Treebeard who becomes alive.
>
> In JK Rowling's novels it is the little creatures like the
> house elves that beat the evil in the end. In Tolkien's
> Lord of the Rings it is the Hobbits that beat the evil
> enemy. I think in this case people like Ken Bone are the
> Hobbits of the 21st century. The modern Hobbits are
> adverage midwestern guys who support Mr. T-Rump and his
> "party" on Twitter and hope to get a bit rich and famous
> along the way.
>
> People like Ken Bone are like Frodo the Hobbit, Mr. T-Rump
> is Sauron and Jack Dorsey is the ringwraith. Will Ken Bone
> throw the ring into Mt. Doom, i.e. will he stop following
> Trump on Twitter and/or quit Twitter completely? If we all
> stop following and listening him he loses his power. This
> includes the senior Republican politicians who do not
> speak up against him because they hope for a job in his
> administration.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Jochen
>
> Sent from my Tricorder
>
> -------- Original message --------
>
> From: Nick Thompson <nickthompson at earthlink.net
> <mailto:nickthompson at earthlink.net>>
>
> Date: 1/28/17 01:57 (GMT+01:00)
>
> To: Friam <Friam at redfish.com <mailto:Friam at redfish.com>>
>
> Cc: penny thompson <penny.thompson at earthlink.net
> <mailto:penny.thompson at earthlink.net>>, 'Bruce Simon'
> <bjs108 at yahoo.com <mailto:bjs108 at yahoo.com>>, 'Dix
> McComas' <dixmccomas2 at gmail.com
> <mailto:dixmccomas2 at gmail.com>>, 'Grant Franks'
> <grantfranks at earthlink.net
> <mailto:grantfranks at earthlink.net>>
>
> Subject: [FRIAM] [[Narcissism Again]again]
>
> Hi everybody,
>
> I kind of got buried by the list last week, but we seem to
> keep coming back to this topic, even when we are talking
> about globalism.
>
> So. Let me just share one thought. I have said a hundred
> times that I think the great achievement of the Right in
> my life time has been to problematize (Ugh!) the Deweyan
> consensus of the 1950’s One of the elements of that
> consensus was that there is a truth of most matters and if
> we gather inclusively, talk calmly, reason closely, study
> carefully, investigate rigorously, we will, together ,
> come to it. What was, at the time of my coming of age,
> the shared foundation of argument, became over last 50
> years, /a position in the argument. /The alternative to
> this Deweyan position seems to be something like, “/There
> is no truth of the matter; there is only the exercise of
> power. He who wins the argument, by whatever means, wins
> the truth. Truth is not something that is arrived at; it
> is won.”/
>
> So. My sense of trump is that in fact, he is not lying. On
> the contrary, he does not share the view of discourse that
> makes lying a possibility. From Trump’s point of view,
> “Whatever I can win with is true.” Hence, if he wins with
> what we call “a lie”, it is true.
>
> I feel we are straying along the edge of some *Nietzschean
> *chasm here. Unfortunately I haven’t read any Nietzsche
> . A brief rummage in Wikipedia, led me to The Parable of
> the Madman
> <http://sourcebooks.fordham.edu/mod/nietzsche-madman.asp>.
> And THAT led me to wonder if the TV Series, Madmen
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mad_Men>, about marketing
> execs in the 60’s, was written with Nietzsche in mind. In
> any case, if there is ever a domain in which the truth is
> that which wins, it would be marketing.
>
> So, if we are going to counter Trump, it cannot be by
> demonstrating that he lies. It has to be by demonstrating
> that liars don’t win.
>
> Heavy lift.
>
> Nick
>
> Nicholas S. Thompson
>
> Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology
>
> Clark University
>
> http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/
> <http://home.earthlink.net/%7Enickthompson/naturaldesigns/>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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>
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> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
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> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
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>
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>
> ============================================================
>
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
>
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
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> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
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