[FRIAM] Postmodernism for Rationalists
Prof David West
profwest at fastmail.fm
Sat Nov 18 19:44:09 EST 2017
I believe Frank is generally right. However,when I was in college in the
late sixties hippies were in full bloom but Maynard G Krebs (Adventures
of Dobie Gillis) was a TV icon and Lord Buckley was on the pop radio.
dave west
On Sat, Nov 18, 2017, at 05:39 PM, Frank Wimberly wrote:
> In my experience, growing up in n the Bay Area, Beatniks had come and
> gone before the Hippies emerged.>
> Frank
>
> Frank Wimberly
> Phone (505) 670-9918
>
> On Nov 18, 2017 11:15 AM, "Steven A Smith" <sasmyth at swcp.com> wrote:
>> Glen ☣-
>>
>> A Postmodernist trying to Rationalize Postmodernism to Rationalists?>>
>> Actually I found it somewhat interesting... and was (nicely?) put
>> off by the formatting... the ragged use of bullet points... a
>> "bulleted list of one" seems very symbolic of my caricature of PoMo
>> aesthetic.>>
>> As for the summary you included here from the presentation:
>>
>> Best of Times:
>>
>>> A) my introduction (informal) to PoMo presented significantly as
>>> both dogmatic and ideological... but that may have been
>>> partly projection and partly the selectivity of what I
>>> *recognized as* PoMo.>>> 2) The "focus on human values" is a tautological statement?
>>> PoMo seems to be centered (to the exclusion of all else) on
>>> a subjectivity that is intrinsically "human" and maybe even
>>> more acutely "self" as in "self-centered"? I'm not trying
>>> to say that I don't find the PoMo perspective useful and
>>> even appealing in many ways, but in it's purest form, it
>>> would seem to degenerate to pure narcissism (without
>>> judgement of that)?>>> c.) Definitely seems to help "expand the mind" in roughly the
>>> same manner that hallucinagens do? I also don't mean that to
>>> be acutely dismissive, but the mechanism seems to be similar
>>> to this, and/or maybe "annealing" with repeated (arbitrary?)
>>> randomizing of the smallest elements with thermal excitation?>>> IV) This one feels like the most useful (or least challenging?)
>>> of his observations.>>
>> Worst of Times:
>>
>>> .0 My earliest introduction to PoMo was exclusively (selective
>>> hearing?) used to push shoddy agendas... I observed it being
>>> used as a turd in the punchbowl more than anything. I think I'm
>>> (well?) past judging it by that early introduction, but I think
>>> the author cited here is (in other text) pointing at the abuses
>>> of the Alt.Right these days.>>> II.) I like the allusion to Cargo Cult... and it fits the
>>> superficial approach of PoMo as I apprehend it... elevating
>>> correlation (free association) to the level of causation.
>>> Ignoring the implicit commutativity in the Form/Function
>>> duality. I don't mean PoMo is intrinsically superficial, but
>>> rather that it is often invoked in that mode and perhaps (too)
>>> often apprehended that way in an attempt to dismiss it's
>>> confrontational style (nature?).>>> c.a) 0.0 above exhibited in this way more than not... it was
>>> the tool of self-styled "young Turks" who, in some ways,
>>> like the Anarchists of early c20, recognized that it is
>>> easier (and can be more satisfying) to toss a bomb into
>>> things than it is to try to deconstruct/reconstruct
>>> thoughtfully.>>> Zed ☣) The existential loneliness of PoMo seems to associate it
>>> with Nihilism and may drive the worst aspects of it's
>>> presentation in culture?>>
>> PoMo seems "mature" enough now that it, itself is wanting to be
>> received seriously (trying to rationalize itself to rationalists?).
>> It's (unfortunate) association with the Beat culture (my experience
>> growing up was that the Beats were mostly the over-30 dropout men who
>> were trying to horn in on the youth culture of the Hippies,
>> especially (surprise!) the girls) and aspects of the (subsequent) drop-
>> out culture exemplified by the Merry Pranksters.>>
>> But what comes after/follows-from PoMo? Post-Postmodernism?
>> MetaModernism? A plenitude of *modernisms (as suggested by the
>> PoMo aesthetic?)>>
>> From the Wikipedia Post Postmodernism entry:
>>
>>> *Salient features of postmodernism are normally thought to include
>>> the ironic play with styles, citations and narrative
>>> levels,**[6][1]** a metaphysical skepticism or **nihilism[2]**
>>> towards a “**grand narrative[3]**” of Western culture,**[7][4]** a
>>> preference for the virtual at the expense of the real (or more
>>> accurately, a fundamental questioning of what 'the real'
>>> constitutes)**[8][5]** and a “waning of affect”**[9][6]** on the
>>> part of the subject, who is caught up in the free interplay of
>>> virtual, endlessly reproducible signs inducing a state of
>>> consciousness similar to schizophrenia.**[10][7]*>> All I know about PoPoMo I just read in Wikipedia (how non-PoMo of
>> me?) but recognize some of the ideas and names referenced there.
>> Eric Gan's PostMillenialism struck me for it's dismissal (judgement?)
>> of PoMo as "victimary thinking"... a corollary of nihilism? I don't
>> really take Gan's Generative Anthropology seriously (though it has
>> interesting ideas) and DO (against my personal convenience) believe
>> in a postCapitalist/postDemocracy (r)evolution on the cusp of
>> happening (perhaps even in my lifetime?).>>
>> I also find something interesting in this description of
>> metaModernism (same source):>>
>>> *As examples of the metamodern sensibility Vermeulen and van den
>>> Akker cite the 'informed naivety', 'pragmatic idealism' and
>>> 'moderate fanaticism' of the various cultural responses to, among
>>> others, climate change, the financial crisis, and (geo)political
>>> instability.*>>> *The prefix 'meta' here refers not to some reflective stance or
>>> repeated rumination, but to Plato's **metaxy[8]**, which intends a
>>> movement between opposite poles as well as beyond.**[25][9]*>>
>> Fire away!
>> - Sieve
>>
>>
>>
>>> HTML:
>>> https://palegreendot.net/rrg_notes/2017/10/09/rrg-reading-notes.html
>>> PDF:
>>> https://palegreendot.net/assets/2017-10-09/postmodernism_for_rationalists.pdf
>>> I appreciated these 2 slides:
>>>
>>>> • Postmodernism at its best · Not dogmatic and ideological ·
>>>> Focuses on human values · Allows you to approach and understand
>>>> other subjects and viewpoints · Acknowledges that the territory
>>>> might require multiple maps • Postmodernism at its worst · Used
>>>> to push shoddy political agendas · Cargo cult ideology · Used to
>>>> rationalize and excuse asocial behavior · Results in existential
>>>> loneliness
>>>>
>>>>>
>>
>> ============================================================
>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
>> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
>> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com>> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
> ============================================================
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
Links:
1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-postmodernism#cite_note-6
2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nihilism
3. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_narrative
4. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-postmodernism#cite_note-7
5. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-postmodernism#cite_note-8
6. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-postmodernism#cite_note-9
7. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-postmodernism#cite_note-10
8. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metaxy
9. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-postmodernism#cite_note-25
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/attachments/20171118/d8a250b2/attachment.html>
More information about the Friam
mailing list