[FRIAM] AI and argument

[Frank Wimberly]

Don't be discouraged.  I think what I said is incorrect.  What I should
have said is that in logic a false premise implies everything so for
instance F -> F is true.  Which puzzles people.  Although it is used
ironically as in "If Trump is a genius then I'll go fly a kite".

Frank




Frank Wimberly
Phone (505) 670-9918

On Oct 3, 2017 11:11 PM, "Nick Thompson" <nickthompson at earthlink.net> wrote:

> Yes, well.  I guess with respect to what you write below, it is time for
> me to retire in disorder from the conversation, as I always seem to when
> logic is under discussion.  I do think that Peirce believed that, in the
> fullness of time, sound reasoning should lead more often than its
> alternative to expectations that are confirmed by experience.    And I also
> thought I had been taught that deductive reasoning can be valid, even when
> none of its premises is true.  But I seem to be putting these two ideas
> together wrong.
>
>
>
> [sigh]  I hate when that happens.
>
>
>
> Nick
>
>
>
> Nicholas S. Thompson
>
> Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology
>
> Clark University
>
> http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/
>
>
>
> *From:* Friam [mailto:friam-bounces at redfish.com] *On Behalf Of *Frank
> Wimberly
> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 03, 2017 9:07 PM
> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <
> friam at redfish.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] AI and argument
>
>
>
> >But to the extent that we were talking about logic, is not logic the
> formalization of good thought?
>
>
>
> Not necessarily.  For instance:  "If A then B implies A" is logically
> valid but most people would feel that it's stupid thinking.  "Every
> statement implies a true statement" is true if you look at the truth table
> but this illustrates the difference between propositional calculus and
> natural language.  I suspect you mean sound reasoning by "good thought".
>
>
>
> Is that responsive to your question?
>
>
>
> Frank
>
>
>
>
>
> Frank Wimberly
> Phone (505) 670-9918
>
>
>
> On Oct 3, 2017 8:52 PM, "Nick Thompson" <nickthompson at earthlink.net>
> wrote:
>
> Well, as a Peircean, I am certainly NOT allowed to believe that all valid
> logic is deductive, so Got Me There!
>
> But to the extent that we were talking about logic, is not logic the
> formalization of good thought?  So, then, it behooves one who would claim
> that an argument is logic to formalize it. So, in which logical world (if
> not deductive logic) does the statement that Einstein is usually right lead
> directly, without an intervening premise, to the conclusion that I should
> provisionally believe him.  I think the argument IS deductive (in this
> case) and that the suppressed premise is that I should treat all people who
> are usually right provisionally as authorities.  (i.e., as people to be
> believed until contrary evidence teaches us otherwise. )
>
> n
>
> Nicholas S. Thompson
> Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology
> Clark University
> http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Friam [mailto:friam-bounces at redfish.com] On Behalf Of g??? ?
> Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2017 6:30 PM
> To: FriAM <friam at redfish.com>
> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] AI and argument
>
> Hm.  My example is simply an argument that I do NOT think succumbs to that
> fallacy.  Einstein is a reliable, but not completely unchallengeable,
> authority.  And if he is challenged, we can dig into the theory to find our
> own reasoning.
>
> I'm curious if you believe all argument/reasoning can be *accurately*
> formalized?  Worse yet, do you believe that all argument can be reduced to
> deduction?
>
>
> On 10/03/2017 05:13 PM, Nick Thompson wrote:
> > Aren't you missing a premise, if you are seeking a valid deductive
> argument?
> >
> > What connects Albert's thought with your conclusion?
>
> --
> ☣ gⅼеɳ
>
> ============================================================
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe
> http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
>
>
> ============================================================
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
>
>
> ============================================================
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/attachments/20171004/c98a5b7a/attachment.html>