[FRIAM] The Atlantic article on "the illusion of reality"

[Nick Thompson]

Hi, Russ, 

 

Long time!  You do know that I am a completely different man from the shallow, narrow-minded, orthodox behaviorist you used to argue with.  I have had heart surgery.  

 

In what you quote below, I am channeling Peirce.  I guess I wouldn’t be channeling him if I weren’t besotted with his views, but it’s also true that I couldn’t represent these views as clearly if they were precisely my own.  

 

You may draw whatever conclusions you may from the fact that over time we are drawn to common conclusions on many matters.  One such conclusion might be that there is a world out there that is banging us into shape.  But that is mere metaphysics;  all we can speak to is consistencies in our experience.  

 

Nick

 

Nicholas S. Thompson

Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology

Clark University

 <http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/> http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/

 

From: Friam [mailto:friam-bounces at redfish.com] On Behalf Of Russ Abbott
Sent: Monday, September 18, 2017 11:38 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <friam at redfish.com>
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] The Atlantic article on "the illusion of reality"

 

Nick wrote, "the idea of a real world outside experience is nonsense"

 

What does that say about areas of the universe or periods of the universe that have no experiencing beings?  

 

Also, we synchronize our experiences so that we can communicate. (And we manage to do that reasonably well most of the time.) Is there any reason that's even possible if there is no real world outside each person's individual experience? (Or does this misrepresent what you have in mind?)

 

On Mon, Sep 18, 2017 at 8:26 PM Nick Thompson <nickthompson at earthlink.net <mailto:nickthompson at earthlink.net> > wrote:

Marcus, 

 

To be honest, I have never seen what philosophy has to do with quantum mechanics.  I agree with you that the idea of a real world outside experience is nonsense but I don’t see how QM gets you there.  Peirce held that all “objective” observation consist of guesses at what we all, the community of inquiry, will agree is real, after much discussion, in the very long run.  So it’s all experience, all the way down, except that “reality” is a sort of future experience.  No dualism allowed. 

 

Nick   

 

Nicholas S. Thompson

Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology

Clark University

 <http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/> http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/

 

From: Friam [mailto:friam-bounces at redfish.com <mailto:friam-bounces at redfish.com> ] On Behalf Of Marcus Daniels
Sent: Monday, September 18, 2017 10:40 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <friam at redfish.com <mailto:friam at redfish.com> >
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] The Atlantic article on "the illusion of reality"

 

"Experiment after experiment has shown—defying common sense—that if we assume that the particles that make up ordinary objects have an objective, observer-independent existence, we get the wrong answers. The central lesson of quantum physics is clear: There are no public objects sitting out there in some preexisting space."

For some reason, many scientists seem to believe that they are independent observers and not part of the physics they measure.   If they can give that up, then things make more sense.

Marcus

  _____  

From: Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com <mailto:friam-bounces at redfish.com> > on behalf of Frank Wimberly <wimberly3 at gmail.com <mailto:wimberly3 at gmail.com> >
Sent: Monday, September 18, 2017 7:56:16 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
Subject: [FRIAM] The Atlantic article on "the illusion of reality" 

 

This resonates with various Framework discussions.  I think it's an area of interest to Nick.

 

https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2016/04/the-illusion-of-reality/479559/?utm_source=atlfb

Frank Wimberly
Phone (505) 670-9918 <tel:(505)%20670-9918> 

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Russ Abbott

Professor, Computer Science

California State University, Los Angeles

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