[FRIAM] The Last Mile, again

Tue Apr 24 11:54:00 EDT 2018

Nick-

Yes, I think it is very motivated.  

With the Ammodt water settlement (Tesuque/Nambe/Pojoaque river basisns)
and the community water system being developed, we have tried to get
them to consider co-locating fiber with every water line, or perhaps
even easier, lay in water line with fiber *inside* (apparently it IS a
thing) so that every household who agrees to cap their well and take
"city water" gets an instant (dark) fat pipe of internet...   it might
be a serious added incentive for some otherwise reluctant (such as
myself) to sign up.

In contrast, the Acequia associations have been operating for centuries
in these rural parts, delivering a service (irrigation water) much like
broadband internet (in some abstract sense) to community-organized
groups...   The Mayordomo and Ditch Cleaning Day and Water Day, are all
very familiar and dear concepts... though I also know of (too) many
situations where one Hatfield or McCoy gets uppity and starts nothing
short of a range war in their neighborhood by "stealing" more than their
share of water or cutting off water to a someone downstream out of
spite, etc.   I think this experience *might* be part of the reason that
the people I was trying to help in La Puebla were a little
stiff/suspicious... they don't (fully) trust their neighbors to "play
fair" when it comes to important things like irrigation water and
streaming video.

Maybe Stanley Crawford will write a novel about this.

- Steve

On 4/24/18 9:41 AM, Nick Thompson wrote:
>
> Steve,
>
>  
>
> Have you ever thought of connecting with the Acequia organizations up
> there? 
>
>  
>
> I know a guy.
>
>  
>
> Water.  Internet.  It’s all the same, right? 
>
>  
>
> Nick
>
>  
>
> Nicholas S. Thompson
>
> Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology
>
> Clark University
>
> http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/
> <http://home.earthlink.net/%7Enickthompson/naturaldesigns/>
>
>  
>
> *From:*Friam [mailto:friam-bounces at redfish.com] *On Behalf Of *Steven
> A Smith
> *Sent:* Tuesday, April 24, 2018 11:09 AM
> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
> <friam at redfish.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] The Last Mile, again
>
>  
>
> Nick -
>
> You are welcome to share, attributed or otherwise.  I think the bottom
> line is really how much you trust this group which is mostly a
> non-technical problem... and by trust I don't just mean intentions but
> also their true ability to follow through...   naturally, the more
> honest support they get, the better.  
>
> My sensibilities would suggest that you "organize" your locals to act
> as a coalition to simultaneously support the effort, and to watchdog
> them.   In the extreme, I could even imagine pushing for a
> subscriber-owned system which is not as radical as a coop but has some
> of the same properties.    If instead of a $100 buy-in, a $500 buy-in
> bought a (collective) minority share in the endeavor?  I don't know if
> $50,000 in capitalization would help get them off the ground faster or
> if a voting block of acute stakeholders would be welcome or not, but
> it is a thought.   My leaning is toward more people taking more
> interest in the obtainment and support of their own services, opposite
> the trend toward deferring same to (big) government and (huge)
> commerce until something goes off the rails one direction or the other
> (tragedy of the commons vs unregulated greed).
>
> I appreciate your bringing this up about now, as it fortifies my
> interest in trying (again) to drum up support for the sorting out of
> up to date broadband in the Pojoaque Valley which is surely less
> difficult (hilly and vegetated) than your own backyard there in (Maine?).
>
> - Steve
>
>  
>
> On 4/24/18 7:56 AM, Nick Thompson wrote:
>
>     Thanks, Steve,
>
>      
>
>     So clear.  May I share your exposition with locals, here? 
>     Attributed? Or Anonymous?
>
>      
>
>     I thought “Radwin” might be a standard.  It turns out to be a
>     company.  Interesting website. 
>
>      
>
>     https://www.radwin.com/
>
>      
>
>     Let me know what you think. 
>
>      
>
>     N
>
>      
>
>     Nicholas S. Thompson
>
>     Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology
>
>     Clark University
>
>     http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/
>     <http://home.earthlink.net/%7Enickthompson/naturaldesigns/>
>
>      
>
>     *From:*Friam [mailto:friam-bounces at redfish.com] *On Behalf Of
>     *Steven A Smith
>     *Sent:* Tuesday, April 24, 2018 12:53 AM
>     *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
>     <friam at redfish.com> <mailto:friam at redfish.com>
>     *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] The Last Mile, again
>
>      
>
>          
>
>         Thanks So much.  Can you explain the following  passage in
>         greater detail?  What do you mean by “over-subscription”. 
>
>     If I actually got my 10Mbps down and 5Mbps up from my provider
>     consistently and I had say 4 devices running in my house,
>     potentially all trying to use *all* 10/5, then within my household
>     I would be "oversubscribed" by 4X.   Of course, I know that it is
>     unlikely for all 4 devices to be trying to push/pull that hard at
>     the same time, continuously so for all practical purposes, my 10/5
>     is available to all 4 devices under most "normal" circumstances.
>
>     I don't know who (if anyone) regulates oversubscription of
>     bandwidth, in this modern wild west it is probably just market forces.
>
>
>         That seems to be what they are promising.  See my answer to
>         Gary, just sent.  The said that they had contracted for a 1
>         gig pipe and that that would take care of anything subscribers
>         could throw at them.  I didn’t make any sense to me, but
>         perhaps I just misunderstood.  If I understood the units, 40
>         users could exhaust I G if they all got on at the same time.
>
>     Yes, I misregistered the units by 10x.  IF 40 users all started
>     pushing (or pulling) as hard as the link would let them (25/3) at
>     the same time, continuously, then you would begin to see
>     degradation (probably sooner for lots of reasons), but the fact
>     is, very few people have the need to use the network that heavily
>     except in bursts and rarely is there a service on the other end
>     willing to meet them halfway and push/pull that much data.   If
>     they are planning on supporting 100 users, then they are at a 2.5X
>     oversubscription rate, but from anecdotal evidence, THAT is very
>     reasonable.  
>
>
>           I assume we are talking about Mega/Giga per second here.  So
>         to carry out the promise as I heard it, they would have to
>         have a 1 gig pipe for every 40 users and they are talking
>         about 100-200 users to begin with.  So, is that what you mean
>         by “over-subscription”:  the number of paid subscribers who
>         would be left out if everybody tried to get on simultaneously
>         at full speed? 
>
>     Yes, that is a correct understanding, but as I indicated above, it
>     is unlikely that anyone, much less everyone can push/pull that
>     hard except very intermittently.
>
>
>         What questions should I be asking them?
>
>     I think they are making all of the right promises and suggesting
>     all the right things...  the real proof will be in their
>     execution.   You aren't in a good position to be second guessing
>     too much about their technical design, but what their
>     redundancy/backup plans are may define how long they stay down if
>     a backhoe, for example, cuts their main line... or if lightning
>     fries a rack of gear, etc.    They probably will tell you
>     reassuring things in any case, so the bigger question is whether
>     you trust them.  
>
>     One thing that might be *real* problems are "line of sight" from
>     your location to one of their towers... if you can *see* one or
>     more of the hilltops where they have towers, you are in pretty
>     good shape unless you are seeing it through your bare trees (or
>     right past the edge) or your neighbor puts up a big barn in the way.
>
>     Another is whether they have the install capacity to stand up 100
>     or more customers quickly... one install team might be able to do
>     several a day (without problems) but with delays and weekends,
>     that might mean some customers won't see service for a couple of
>     months.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>     ============================================================
>
>     FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
>
>     Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
>
>     to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
>
>     FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
>
>  
>
>
>
> ============================================================
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/attachments/20180424/3139174d/attachment.html>