[FRIAM] The Last Mile, again
Steven A Smith
sasmyth at swcp.com
Tue Apr 24 11:54:00 EDT 2018
Nick-
Yes, I think it is very motivated.
With the Ammodt water settlement (Tesuque/Nambe/Pojoaque river basisns)
and the community water system being developed, we have tried to get
them to consider co-locating fiber with every water line, or perhaps
even easier, lay in water line with fiber *inside* (apparently it IS a
thing) so that every household who agrees to cap their well and take
"city water" gets an instant (dark) fat pipe of internet... it might
be a serious added incentive for some otherwise reluctant (such as
myself) to sign up.
In contrast, the Acequia associations have been operating for centuries
in these rural parts, delivering a service (irrigation water) much like
broadband internet (in some abstract sense) to community-organized
groups... The Mayordomo and Ditch Cleaning Day and Water Day, are all
very familiar and dear concepts... though I also know of (too) many
situations where one Hatfield or McCoy gets uppity and starts nothing
short of a range war in their neighborhood by "stealing" more than their
share of water or cutting off water to a someone downstream out of
spite, etc. I think this experience *might* be part of the reason that
the people I was trying to help in La Puebla were a little
stiff/suspicious... they don't (fully) trust their neighbors to "play
fair" when it comes to important things like irrigation water and
streaming video.
Maybe Stanley Crawford will write a novel about this.
- Steve
On 4/24/18 9:41 AM, Nick Thompson wrote:
>
> Steve,
>
>
>
> Have you ever thought of connecting with the Acequia organizations up
> there?
>
>
>
> I know a guy.
>
>
>
> Water. Internet. It’s all the same, right?
>
>
>
> Nick
>
>
>
> Nicholas S. Thompson
>
> Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology
>
> Clark University
>
> http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/
> <http://home.earthlink.net/%7Enickthompson/naturaldesigns/>
>
>
>
> *From:*Friam [mailto:friam-bounces at redfish.com] *On Behalf Of *Steven
> A Smith
> *Sent:* Tuesday, April 24, 2018 11:09 AM
> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
> <friam at redfish.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] The Last Mile, again
>
>
>
> Nick -
>
> You are welcome to share, attributed or otherwise. I think the bottom
> line is really how much you trust this group which is mostly a
> non-technical problem... and by trust I don't just mean intentions but
> also their true ability to follow through... naturally, the more
> honest support they get, the better.
>
> My sensibilities would suggest that you "organize" your locals to act
> as a coalition to simultaneously support the effort, and to watchdog
> them. In the extreme, I could even imagine pushing for a
> subscriber-owned system which is not as radical as a coop but has some
> of the same properties. If instead of a $100 buy-in, a $500 buy-in
> bought a (collective) minority share in the endeavor? I don't know if
> $50,000 in capitalization would help get them off the ground faster or
> if a voting block of acute stakeholders would be welcome or not, but
> it is a thought. My leaning is toward more people taking more
> interest in the obtainment and support of their own services, opposite
> the trend toward deferring same to (big) government and (huge)
> commerce until something goes off the rails one direction or the other
> (tragedy of the commons vs unregulated greed).
>
> I appreciate your bringing this up about now, as it fortifies my
> interest in trying (again) to drum up support for the sorting out of
> up to date broadband in the Pojoaque Valley which is surely less
> difficult (hilly and vegetated) than your own backyard there in (Maine?).
>
> - Steve
>
>
>
> On 4/24/18 7:56 AM, Nick Thompson wrote:
>
> Thanks, Steve,
>
>
>
> So clear. May I share your exposition with locals, here?
> Attributed? Or Anonymous?
>
>
>
> I thought “Radwin” might be a standard. It turns out to be a
> company. Interesting website.
>
>
>
> https://www.radwin.com/
>
>
>
> Let me know what you think.
>
>
>
> N
>
>
>
> Nicholas S. Thompson
>
> Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology
>
> Clark University
>
> http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/
> <http://home.earthlink.net/%7Enickthompson/naturaldesigns/>
>
>
>
> *From:*Friam [mailto:friam-bounces at redfish.com] *On Behalf Of
> *Steven A Smith
> *Sent:* Tuesday, April 24, 2018 12:53 AM
> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
> <friam at redfish.com> <mailto:friam at redfish.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] The Last Mile, again
>
>
>
>
>
> Thanks So much. Can you explain the following passage in
> greater detail? What do you mean by “over-subscription”.
>
> If I actually got my 10Mbps down and 5Mbps up from my provider
> consistently and I had say 4 devices running in my house,
> potentially all trying to use *all* 10/5, then within my household
> I would be "oversubscribed" by 4X. Of course, I know that it is
> unlikely for all 4 devices to be trying to push/pull that hard at
> the same time, continuously so for all practical purposes, my 10/5
> is available to all 4 devices under most "normal" circumstances.
>
> I don't know who (if anyone) regulates oversubscription of
> bandwidth, in this modern wild west it is probably just market forces.
>
>
> That seems to be what they are promising. See my answer to
> Gary, just sent. The said that they had contracted for a 1
> gig pipe and that that would take care of anything subscribers
> could throw at them. I didn’t make any sense to me, but
> perhaps I just misunderstood. If I understood the units, 40
> users could exhaust I G if they all got on at the same time.
>
> Yes, I misregistered the units by 10x. IF 40 users all started
> pushing (or pulling) as hard as the link would let them (25/3) at
> the same time, continuously, then you would begin to see
> degradation (probably sooner for lots of reasons), but the fact
> is, very few people have the need to use the network that heavily
> except in bursts and rarely is there a service on the other end
> willing to meet them halfway and push/pull that much data. If
> they are planning on supporting 100 users, then they are at a 2.5X
> oversubscription rate, but from anecdotal evidence, THAT is very
> reasonable.
>
>
> I assume we are talking about Mega/Giga per second here. So
> to carry out the promise as I heard it, they would have to
> have a 1 gig pipe for every 40 users and they are talking
> about 100-200 users to begin with. So, is that what you mean
> by “over-subscription”: the number of paid subscribers who
> would be left out if everybody tried to get on simultaneously
> at full speed?
>
> Yes, that is a correct understanding, but as I indicated above, it
> is unlikely that anyone, much less everyone can push/pull that
> hard except very intermittently.
>
>
> What questions should I be asking them?
>
> I think they are making all of the right promises and suggesting
> all the right things... the real proof will be in their
> execution. You aren't in a good position to be second guessing
> too much about their technical design, but what their
> redundancy/backup plans are may define how long they stay down if
> a backhoe, for example, cuts their main line... or if lightning
> fries a rack of gear, etc. They probably will tell you
> reassuring things in any case, so the bigger question is whether
> you trust them.
>
> One thing that might be *real* problems are "line of sight" from
> your location to one of their towers... if you can *see* one or
> more of the hilltops where they have towers, you are in pretty
> good shape unless you are seeing it through your bare trees (or
> right past the edge) or your neighbor puts up a big barn in the way.
>
> Another is whether they have the install capacity to stand up 100
> or more customers quickly... one install team might be able to do
> several a day (without problems) but with delays and weekends,
> that might mean some customers won't see service for a couple of
> months.
>
>
>
>
>
>
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