[FRIAM] What is an object?

Fri Jul 20 16:54:28 EDT 2018

Someone needs to make the joke:
Nick you see an object are things. Tires coins. that strange drink some
lady at TraderJoes had tap, Some things like this type of joke is called a
silly (polite) or smartass (30+) answers

Thank you thank! I'll be at the Cabana of Humor all week :P

On Thu, Jul 19, 2018 at 5:42 PM, Nick Thompson <nickthompson at earthlink.net>
wrote:

> Thanks, Eric, for responding.
>
>
>
> Life, here, is very complicated, right at the moment, but I wanted to
> answer one of your comments, strait-away.
>
>
>
> *Not only can this happen in *sequence* as you assume.  But it can also
> happen in parallel.  My hand can feel the elephant's trunk at the exact
> same time my eyes can see the elephant.  It's not clear to me what you gain
> through such (over-)simplification*
>
>
>
>
>
> What I gain from the over simplification is humbleness, the same
> humbleness that is so eloquently expressed in you extended passage.  At the
> risk of irritating Glen (which I truly strive not to do; I have supped too
> often at his table),  the Real can only consist of the validation of some
> expectation of experience arising from an earlier experience.  I once tried
> to rescue a litter of wild kittens.  I kept stepping on them because they
> never learned to watch my EYES.   They were too focused on my feet to
> figure out what was going to happen next.  I might respond to your critique
> by conceding that the sequence of experiences is more like a braid than a
> thread, but I think it is a sequence.  But past, present, and future are of
> course themselves experiences, and it is an accomplishment, not God given,
> to distinguish between or our present experiences, our memories and our
> expectations for the future.
>
>
>
> I hope to get another crack at your email before I go to bed tonight.
>
>
>
>
>
> Nick
>
> Nicholas S. Thompson
>
> Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology
>
> Clark University
>
> http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Friam [mailto:friam-bounces at redfish.com] On Behalf Of Eric Smith
> Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2018 5:39 PM
> To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <friam at redfish.com>
> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] What is an object?
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jul 19, 2018, at 5:26 PM, uǝlƃ ☣ <gepropella at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >
>
> > "the validator of our senses can only be our senses" waaay
> oversimplifies the set of experiences.  If there were only 1 type of
> experience, then you'd be right.  But there are (at least) many types of
> experience.  And 1 experience of one type can "validate" a different
> experience of an entirely different type.
>
> >
>
> > Not only can this happen in *sequence* as you assume.  But it can also
> happen in parallel.  My hand can feel the elephant's trunk at the exact
> same time my eyes can see the elephant.  It's not clear to me what you gain
> through such (over-)simplification.
>
>
>
> Yes, I was going to say something similar, and couldn’t figure out how to
> say it so that it would be constructive rather than sounding like I was
> trying to pick a fight (which I assure you, I never am; enough fights pick
> me already which I wish to get out of).
>
>
>
> So many of these statements read, to me, as if they are asserting that the
> structures of sense-data are some kind of self-evident bottleneck, or
> conversely, that they are privileged in some correspondingly self-evident
> way.  I get this impression from reading Russell’s emphasis on the role of
> sense data, in either Problems of Philosophy or History of Western
> Philosophy (I forget which now).
>
>
>
> My sense data deliver essentially nothing direct about colliding black
> holes, or colliding neutron stars, or rotating black hole accretion disks'
> emitting gamma rays and ultra-high-energy neutrinos.  (More specifically,
> they deliver essentially nothing direct about whatever makes these
> phenomena their particular selves, different from all the other phenomena
> that they are not.)  Anything I or anyone else knows about those subjects
> and phenomena is distilled from unbelievably elaborate prosthetic systems,
> which appeal, not so much to any particular sensory event, as to the
> ability to coreograph such events in ways that are selective of certain
> kinds of patterns.  And then there is the whole edifice of logic, math, and
> language to organize it all and make it navigable.  What comes out of all
> that, however, is a formal model of an external universe that is as worthy
> of trust as anything my mind is capable of holding.
>
>
>
> That to say, I guess, that from a few bricks, the number of different
> kinds of houses that can be built combinatorially is far greater than the
> count of the types of bricks.  So the limits on what patterns can be
> apprehended seems to be very obscurely related to the limits of senses.
>
>
>
> At least to me.
>
>
>
> Eric
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > On 07/19/2018 02:17 PM, Nick Thompson wrote:
>
> >> I was just making the banal philosophical point that the validator of
> our senses can only be our senses.  So a hunch “about the world” is nothing
> more than a hunch about future experiences of the world.  As Harmon would
> say, we can never touch the noumenal.
>
> >
>
> > --
>
> > ☣ uǝlƃ
>
> >
>
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>
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>
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