[FRIAM] Latent Topics was: enough sleep?

[Steven A Smith]

Marcus wrote, in response to Glen:

> In the end, life is just a struggle for power.

I think this is technically accurate, but may carry a cynicism which
ignores some subtleties along the way?  It invokes the image attributed
(I think) to Tennyson and perhaps exploited by Dawkins to provide
contrast to support his Selfish Genery (Nick?).   "Nature: Red in Tooth
and Claw".

Edwin Wilson might anthropomorphize "genes" in Dawkins style, with his
statement “morality is an illusion fobbed off on us by our genes to get
us to cooperate”, but it does seem to sum up one perspective on the
illusions (or realities?) that seem to come along with cooperation
(symbiosis) in nature?

From my ALife days, "Life" is a lot of things at once, while being
roughly as simple as systems which increase negentropy in the flux of
free energy sources. Your "struggle for power" is perhaps a reflection
of the competition for better exposure to said "flux".   Coherence,
Homeostasis, Reproduction, Competition for Resources...  It seems like
some here have been more deeply engaged in these topics than I...  your
colloquial use of "Power" would suggest a little higher level of
emergent properties, implying networks of predator/prey,
parasite/symbiote, even ecosystems?  Erwin Schroedinger in his classic
_What is Life?_ seemed to reduce it as well as any physicist could, yet
still left open plenty of acknowledgement of higher level emergent
properties (I think).

I have recently been reading up on "plant guilds" and in particular
"tree guilds" to improve how I encourage or cultivate the landscape
around my house to become more productive and interesting for me and
mine.   Recognizing the subtle interactions between highly distinct
species (from every kingdom of life) and how their resonances can be
reinforcing is fascinating.  Of course, the ideal of what is "pleasing
and productive" is highly context-dependent.   I don't know what kinds
of ecosystems have evolved around "invasive species" such as
tumbleweeds, russian olives, tamarisk, but it might only be their
relatively *recent* invasion that has us considering them a problem...
they haven't found an equilibrium with the other flora, fauna and
hydrogeological phenomena (riparian in particular) and all WE recognize
is the disruption of the old order, and lament the loss of the
"convenient" qualities offered to us and ours by the old order.

I am also 90% of the way through Richard Powers latest Novel 
_Overstory_ which uses the lives and loves of perhaps a dozen humans to
expose the rich and ancient history of and contemporary experience of
Trees.  It is something of an epic opus among his many richly complex
books and characters.  He did a reading at the Lensic in February and
reported that during the course of the research for this book he moved
to the edge of the Smoky Mountain National Park to be near the old
growth forest there while he finished up the novel.  The human societal
metaphor of a Guild centered around a Tree seems pale in import and
complexity in the face of his description of the legacy of  trees and
forests.

- Steve

>   As soon as one starts to think in terms of entitled or not entitled (beyond rhetoric and tactics), it is just taking your eye off the ball.   Whether it is for the best or not is in the end, subjective.
>
> Btw, it's good you point out the concept of the "underlying thread".   Same idea:  There's the stated topic of a thread and then there are latent topics.   Usually latent topics are more interesting anyway.   An individual can be a class or an individual can be one of a billion instances of a latent class.    Mostly we are all redundant, and encouraged to be so -- the latter -- good little consumers, churchgoers, and taxpayers.
>
> On 4/10/19, 7:46 AM, "Friam on behalf of glen∈ℂ" <friam-bounces at redfish.com on behalf of gepropella at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>     The underlying thread seems to be the extent to which we are part of a fluid and the extent to which that fluid's phenomena are distinct from those phenomena generated by the individual parts, the humans.  Individualist ⇔ socialist spectrum, the ontological status of groups (including whether your animals are mere slaves or full members of your group), cyborg or healthy organelle, etc.
>     
>     It reminds me of the quote I think highlights the individualist's arrogance: "I don't know why we're here.  But I'm pretty sure it's not to enjoy ourselves." (attributed to Wittgenstein)
>     
>     Why do we think we should ever "feel recharged", "be happy", "be healthy", etc?  I look at the way my cats behave, compare their lives to that of the stray we fed (and who bled all over our patio every time he ate, who when we took him to the Feral Cat Society, killed him right off the bat because he had so many diseases) and I can't help but wonder *why* individuals are so entitled to think they deserve anything at all other than the opportunity to exist ... if even that.
>     
>     
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