[FRIAM] A question for tomorrow

[Nick Thompson]

Larding below.

 

Nicholas S. Thompson

Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology

Clark University

 <http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/> http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/

 

From: Friam [mailto:friam-bounces at redfish.com] On Behalf Of Frank Wimberly
Sent: Friday, April 26, 2019 8:19 PM
To: Russ.Abbott at gmail.com; The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <friam at redfish.com>
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] A question for tomorrow

 

On the way to Friam I said to Nick.  Turing Machines don't know anything.  They may store representations of knowledge. [NST==>Frank: This is how I understand you.  The relation between a Turing Machine and knowledge is like the relation between Mathematics and the events or processes it models.  All the knowledge is in the interpretation  translate “life” into something that the Math or Machine can compute and in the interpretation that translate the results of the computation back into life.  Let’s see.  What am I accusing you of here.  OH.  I have it.  I am accusing you of a mathematicians understanding of computation.  Is that understanding of that relation canonical?   <==nst]  I further said that a photograph also represents knowledge.  For example, the number of floors of a given building.  Most people would be puzzled by the question, "What does a photo know?"[NST==>I think the metaphor is unfair.  Nobody has ever accused a photograph of being able to play chess, or to engage in other tasks which are broadly seen (at least by defrocked English majors) as cognitive.  <==nst]  

 

There were multiple parallel conversations after we arrived.  I don't recall additional discussions about what Turing Machines know.

[NST==>Except at the very end, after 3 hours of discussing other things.  By that time I was exhausted, and I don’t remember what we said.  We spent a lot of time exploring our attractions to unorthodox scientific opinion in such matters as MSG and headaches, auras, pigeon navigation, an even, by implication, the tin-hat stuff.  It’s a question I would love to poll the FRIAM list on:  How many of you engage in unproven health practices of various sorts, even though “science” tells you they are worthless?  Why, exactly?  How is that consistent with your criticisms of  climate science deniers?  <==nst] 

Gotta go, 

Thanks everybody, 

 

N

-----------------------------------
Frank Wimberly

My memoir:
https://www.amazon.com/author/frankwimberly

My scientific publications:
https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Frank_Wimberly2

Phone (505) 670-9918

 

On Fri, Apr 26, 2019, 8:06 PM Russ Abbott <russ.abbott at gmail.com <mailto:russ.abbott at gmail.com> > wrote:

Nick, I can't believe you are asking such a question -- unless by "know" you mean something very different from the common understanding. No computer knows anything, although it may have lots of stored information. (Information is meant in the Shannon sense.) 

 

For example, Oxford defines <https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/knowledge>  knowledge as "Facts, information, and skills acquired through experience or education; the theoretical or practical understanding of a subject." This is distinct from, for example, having access to an encyclopedia--or even having memorized the contents of one. Turing machines, and computers in general, do not have an understanding of anything--even though they may have lots of Shannon-style information (which we understand as) related to some subject.

 

(Like Glen, though, I am interested in the results, if any, of this morning's meeting.)

 

-- Russ Abbott                                       
Professor, Computer Science
California State University, Los Angeles

 

 

On Fri, Apr 26, 2019 at 2:38 PM uǝlƃ ☣ <gepropella at gmail.com <mailto:gepropella at gmail.com> > wrote:

What was the result of this morning's conversation?

On 4/25/19 10:50 PM, Nick Thompson wrote:
> What does a Turing Machine know?


-- 
☣ uǝlƃ

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