[FRIAM] Statistical poser (aka fact checking is hard)

[Steven A Smith]

It is to this point that I prefer to think in terms of "neurodiverse" 
rather than "mentally ill".   Your definitions here respond more to my 
idea of "sociopathy".    I don't think of sociopaths as being mentally 
ill, just not good members of the society they find themselves in.   
Most *L*ibertarians I know seem to be on the verge of sociopathy as a 
matter of honor.

There has been a move afoot to recognize the selection value of 
neurodiversity in a group and to de-stigmatize or de-pathologize what 
was previously considered dis-ease or dys-function.

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/23/books/review/neurotribes-by-steve-silberman.html

On 1/2/19 12:33 PM, Marcus Daniels wrote:
>
> Nick writes:
>
> “A mentally ill individual is one whose behavior is so annoying that 
> other individuals are willing to cooperate to put him away?”
>
> Sure, in that case the “mentally ill individual” may have failed to 
> connect their actions with the consequences.   Or maybe they wanted 
> lodging in a psychiatric facility on the family dime -- probably a bad 
> call if your name was Rosemary Kennedy.
>
> Marcus
>
> *From: *Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com> on behalf of Nick Thompson 
> <nickthompson at earthlink.net>
> *Reply-To: *The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group 
> <friam at redfish.com>
> *Date: *Wednesday, January 2, 2019 at 12:15 PM
> *To: *'The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group' 
> <friam at redfish.com>
> *Subject: *Re: [FRIAM] Statistical poser (aka fact checking is hard)
>
> Marcus,
>
> Forgive me if I am entering this party late, but what exactly means 
> “mental illness”
>
> */I would expect that mental illness is massively underdiagnosed in 
> this country, and especially in the blue collar mid-west where it is 
> considered a taboo topic and people have not had adequate health 
> insurance to use to diagnose it. /*
>
> So, is a young person who hears voices, but who integrates those 
> voices into a well-organized and effective life mentally ill?  Is the 
> homeless person who prefers to sleep on a subway grate than go into a 
> shelter mentally ill? I had a colleague once who famously checked 
> himself into a mental hospital making a vague claim to hearing voices 
> and then, once on the ward, behaved absolutely as he would have 
> otherwise.  His only aberrant behavior was that he constantly took 
> notes.  Explaining that he was doing a study of the ward.  When, after 
> a few weeks, he got bored of it and tried to check himself out, he 
> could not get out!  He had to use his “fail-safe” (the chairman of his 
> department, if I remember) to extract himself.  Was he mentally ill?
>
> Is trump mentally Ill?  WAS he mentally ill before he became 
> president?  Or was he promoted to his level of mental illness. (CF, 
> Peter Principle.) 
> <https://www.amazon.co.uk/Peter-Principle-Things-Always-Wrong/dp/0285631764> 
>  (In a political hierarchy a politician will rise to his level of 
> insanity.) (cf, /All the Kings Men 
> <https://www.amazon.com/s?ie=UTF8&field-keywords=All%20the%20kings%20men&index=blended&link_code=qs&sourceid=Mozilla-search&tag=mozilla-20>/, 
> a fabulous novel, by the way).  Not clear to me how a libertarian of 
> any stripe can allow the concept of mental illness into a 
> conversation.  A mentally ill individual is one whose behavior is so 
> annoying that other individuals are willing to cooperate to put him away?
>
> Nick
>
> Nicholas S. Thompson
>
> Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology
>
> Clark University
>
> http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/
>
> *From:* Friam [mailto:friam-bounces at redfish.com] *On Behalf Of *Marcus 
> Daniels
> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 02, 2019 11:44 AM
> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group 
> <friam at redfish.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] Statistical poser (aka fact checking is hard)
>
> Robert writes:
>
> “Estimates vary by source, but fraction of opioid deaths that are 
> suicide is around 20-30%”
>
> What I’d really like to know is how the fraction of opioid deaths 
> occur with individuals that have no historical sign of mental illness 
> at all, and would be described by their friends and colleagues as 
> effective and engaged prior to their initial prescription.   I would 
> expect that mental illness is massively underdiagnosed in this 
> country, and especially in the blue collar mid-west where it is 
> considered a taboo topic and people have not had adequate health 
> insurance to use to diagnose it.    I strongly suspect a structural 
> cause of all this is the idea that free will exists, combined with the 
> inevitable evolution of the economy toward more automation.   Millions 
> of people, maybe hundreds of millions of people, have what amounts to 
> a mistaken view of the world.   Similar arguments apply to the ongoing 
> outbursts of gun homicide (instead of suicide).
>
> Marcus
>
>
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