[FRIAM] models, reality, etc.

[Prof David West]

Given an "experiencer":

- what is directly "experienced" is apparently randomly moving dots.

- what is "interpreted" from that experience (a kind of meta-experience)
  are 'triangles', 'squares', 'stars', and 'prisms'.
- every experiencer's behavior will be grounded on the interpretations,
  not the 'raw data'. In an important way this makes the patterns 'more
  real' than the data.
- if two independent experiencers could occupy the exact same
  observational point, they might experience the same interpretations.
  Open question because they could not occupy the same observational
  point at the same time.
- if we could devise a 'language' that would allow us to say that, "my
  equilateral triangles are identical to your slightly isosceles
  triangles plus Factor X," we could say that we are seeing the same
  patterns / making the same interpretations.
- are triangles, squares, stars, and prisms, the only possible
  interpretations/experiences? if so why? *One* possibility is
  anthropomorphic in nature - they are the only possible patterns that
  an observer configured as a human being can see. This answer would
  seem to weaken the case for the 'reality' of the patterns vis-a-vis
  the reality of the dots. *Two*, the patterns are akin to Platonic
  'ideals', in which case they are real, but in a sense that forces a
  kind of dualism.
- how valid is the statement, "every experiencer's behavior will be
  grounded on the interpretations, not the 'raw data'." I would argue
  for validity, which raises some real problems when you are dealing
  with 12 trillion dots instead of twelve. I would seem to mandate the
  construction of "models" based on some set of "primitive"
  interpretations/patterns. It would seem that some kind of constraints
  are necessary to build 'orderly' models. If so, then the constraints
  are interpretations (meta-expriences) in the same fashion as for the
  "primitives" and raise the same kind of questions — are the
  'structures' constraining the models the only possible ones?
- of course, a good Buddhist epistemologist  would argue that you can
  transcend the "patterns" and behave in accordance with the 'raw data'
  but few on this list will be interested in that.
just a start ...

davew



On Sat, Jan 12, 2019, at 12:23 PM, Nick Thompson wrote:
> Wow.  It's all those things at once!  


>  


> **_REALLY?!!!!!_**


>  


> What a great example!


>  


> Let me try and put it into words.  The nominalist would like to say
> “There is no real pattern there, it just depends on how you want to
> look at it.”  The realist would like to say, “Nonsense.  The patterns
> appear when you take into account the point of view of the observer.
> Anybody who cares to take that point of view, adopt that procedure,
> etc., will see each pattern.  They are real patterns.”>  


> How do you understand it, Dave?


>  


> Nick


>  


> Nicholas S. Thompson


> Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology


> Clark University


> http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/


>  


>  


> -----Original Message----- From: Friam [mailto:friam-
> bounces at redfish.com] On Behalf Of Prof David West Sent: Saturday,
> January 12, 2019 11:53 AM To: friam at redfish.com Subject: [FRIAM]
> models, reality, etc.>  


> This popped up elsewhere and I thought the FRIAM group might find it
> interesting. I had not heard of "statistical equivalence" before. The
> GIF recalled to mind previous conversations about Reality (which is
> "real:" the dots, the triangles, the squares, ...?); models;
> interpretations (ala Copenhagen); even Nick's Natural Design.>  


> davew


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