[FRIAM] Few of you ...

[Steven A Smith]

Nick -

Attempting to respond to the "algorithmic" subtopic:

I have felt from an early age (before I knew the term algorithm) that 
the socio-political-religious-economic systems we all operate within are 
algorithmic.   I am prone to define "fascism" as any such systems which 
go over some magical threshold from trying to follow the part of their 
charter which is to serve some end outside of the system to caring 
primarily (or exclusively) about self-perpetuation (coherence, 
robustness and growth).

With that in mind, the US highway/transportation system from the 
Interstate Highway system down to semi-maintained former logging roads, 
the vehicles traveling over them, the rules governing them, and the 
people operating those vehicles and pursuing other ends/interests 
through the engagement of the system represent a large, complex 
"computation" of sorts.  As self-driving vehicles are displaced by 
variations on self-riving vehicles, the similarity will approach identity.

I agree with Dave's general distinction between "algorithm" and 
"algorithmic context",  though it would seem that nominally "algorithmic 
context" is maintained (if not established as well) by another level of 
"algorithms" (e.g.  Maritime/Mechanical/Civil Engineering principles, etc.)

- Steve

On 1/15/19 10:13 AM, Prof David West wrote:
> Nick wrote:
>
>  "Computers are the conscripted sailors of our generation."
>
> I would say that "computer users are the conscripted sailors.
>
> Computers, computing, software: all are algorithmic, creating an 
> "algorithmic context" (Navy) within which human users (Sailors) are 
> constrained to act.
>
> Like human sailors in the Navy, human users acting in this algorithmic 
> context can only go wrong if they attempt to utilize their "native 
> intelligence."
>
> Moreover, this state of affairs is pretty much intentional (albeit 
> sometimes below the threshold of awareness). In the algorithmic world, 
> humans are nothing except sources of error. Even those developing the 
> software are assumed to be (the vast majority anyway) incompetent and 
> must be constrained by rigid and detailed methodology.
>
> SkyNet has won and we are but its minions.
>
> davew
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jan 14, 2019, at 9:53 PM, Nick Thompson wrote:
>>
>> , I imagine, are old enough to remember this:
>>
>>
>> */“The Navy is a master plan designed by geniuses for execution by 
>> idiots. If you are not an idiot, but find yourself in the Navy, you 
>> can only operate well by pretending to be one. All the shortcuts and 
>> economies and common-sense changes that your native intelligence 
>> suggests to you are mistakes. Learn to quash them. Constantly ask 
>> yourself, "How would I do this if I were a fool?" Throttle down your 
>> mind to a crawl. Then you will never go wrong.” /*
>> ― Herman Wouk, The Caine Mutiny 
>> <https://www.goodreads.com/work/quotes/1059565>
>>
>> It seems right that the computer was invented by a democratic society 
>> after the largest successful naval campaign in the history of the 
>> universe. The navy was a giant algorithm.   Computers are the 
>> conscripted sailors of our generation.
>>
>>
>> Nick
>>
>> Nicholas S. Thompson
>>
>> Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology
>>
>> Clark University
>>
>> http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/
>>
>>
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>
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