[FRIAM] narcissism

[Steven A Smith]

I believe that this article (or a very similar one) was posted here a
couple of years ago:

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2013/11/14/the-most-narcissistic-u-s-presidents/

    /These researchers also found that, on average, presidents are more
    narcissistic than the average American. Moreover, the level of
    grandiose narcissism in presidents has increased in recent decades./

    /First, how do you measure narcissism? Grandiose narcissism is a
    distinctive// //type
    <http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=2&ved=0CDMQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.researchgate.net%2Fpublication%2F10680002_Interpersonal_analysis_of_grandiose_and_vulnerable_narcissism%2Ffile%2Fe0b4951894e02c9a11.pdf&ei=CueDUp_aB5P84AO6n4CIAg&usg=AFQjCNGBFT_n9QrKjPzezpMxJKcnRxtK7Q&bvm=bv.56343320,d.dmg>// //of
    narcissism characterized by exhibitionism, attention-seeking,
    inflated demands of entitlement and denial of weaknesses./

I have a hard time agreeing with Glen's premise (as I understand it)
that the narcissism is not the problem, but rather the incompetence.   
On the other hand, I don't know that the real problem is (in this case,
45s) narcissism in itself, but the fact that we (by commission or
omission or incompetence or personal narcissism) put him (and have kept
him) at the apex of US (free world?) political power.    Perhaps it is
legitimate to say that narcissism and incompetence aggravate one another.

The (2013) Pew study puts LBJ and Teddy Roosevelt (~1.6) at the highest
Narcissism Index and JFK and Bill Clinton about half of that (.8) and
Ronald Reagan just above 0.0 and Adams, Truman, Washington, Carter, and
Eisenhower just below.     I was surprised that the list wasn't more
skewed toward narcissism but not that it has increased of late...   as
if the feedback loop of broadcast media reinforces narcissism as a
selection criteria for presidential aspirants and presidential contest
winners.

I DO think that JFK represents a possible support for Glen's implication
that competence can mitigate or operate in spite of narcissism.   Or at
least many consider JFK to have been highly effective at pursuing the
best interest of the people of the USA.

My intuition and anecdotal experience suggests that narcissism is a huge
risk when involved in power, and for it to be mitigated, there needs to
be a balance of competence and goodwill for it not to generally be a
problem for everyone influenced by their power.   Is goodwill compatible
with narcissism... the DSM definition includes "lack of empathy"... on
the surface, it appears that goodwill requires empathy... but perhaps it
is more complex?

Here is an interesting blog-entry that seems to be a little more
thorough/thoughtful about narcissism than average.

    https://www.truity.com/blog/are-you-secretly-narcissist

- Steve

On 4/28/20 7:27 PM, Frank Wimberly wrote:
> If he weren't narcissistic he would defer to the experts which would
> mitigate his incompetence.  The BS about being sarcastic is a
> pathetic way to rationalize his failure to defer.
>
> Since narcissism is universal adding "malignant" or "pathological"
> makes a useful distinction.
>
> On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 7:13 PM uǝlƃ ☣ <gepropella at gmail.com
> <mailto:gepropella at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>     OK. Well, risking too much repetition, if he were competent, he
>     wouldn't have said that ... and the policies would not have
>     followed ... and he would defer to the experts. Because, as
>     Dunning-Kruger and Zajenkowski et al, and Schröder-Abé et al, seem
>     to point out, competent people have a good handle on their own
>     incompetence, regardless of their narcissism.
>
>     On 4/28/20 5:50 PM, Frank Wimberly wrote:
>     > My assumed audience is not the American public thank God.  An
>     example of how his narcissism makes him dangerous is his saying
>     the coronavirus will be gone in five days and the related policy
>     positions.  His grandiosity is threatened by the prospect of
>     deferring to epidemiologists and virologists.  That causes a
>     narcissistic injury.
>
>     -- 
>     ☣ uǝlƃ
>
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> Frank Wimberly
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