[FRIAM] narcissism

[Steven A Smith]

Glen, et al -
> As for Trump, I've *already* said that his narcissism interferes with his competence. I said that explicitly. I've even said it more than once. But it seems irrelevant to how we compensate for the situation we're in. I don't think I said *independent*. I'm sorry if I did.  Irrelevant and independent are different. My point was to find something we can *act* on. And I don't think we can act on his narcissism. But we can act on his incompetence.

I am conflicted by this. 

I have known people whose very competence seems to be significantly a
product of both their grandiose and their vulnerable narcissism.   They
think they are highly capable, so they take on challenges that a less
confident person may not, and it is this very confidence that seems to
provide a certain amount of momentum to make good progress.   The
vulnerable side/aspect/version of this is often so afraid of being
embarrassed that they work extra hard.... dot all their i's and cross
all their t's.  For the most part, this combination may still lead an
individual to be grandiose (over-estimate their ability) and vulnerable
(thin-skinned, self-protective of criticism), but overall effective and
not necessarily pathological to others.

On the other hand, I have known individuals whose narcissism (both
grandiosity and hyper-vulnerability) seems to make them highly
*incompetent*.   They ignore all evidence that they are clueless and
they react punishingly to anyone who challenges their grandiosity.

Perhaps one of the distinctions between these two versions is their
level of circumstantial power/privilege.  Perhaps whether it is having a
certain inherent charisma, a powerful family, wealth, or even ability
(physical or intellectual prowess)...   these individuals simply become
bullies, using whatever advantage/leverage they have over others to
suppress negative feedback.

I don't know if this is described in the DSM or in literature or amongst
trained analysts and psychological professionals... it is just my
anecdotal apprehension of yet another "two types of people" .

- Steve

> On 4/29/20 12:21 PM, Frank Wimberly wrote:
>> Have you read Kernberg?  I would do that first and I would claim that he should dominate me and the others with respect to his/their/my credibility.  My knowledge, such as it is, comes from informal conversations with senior psychoanalysts in Pittsburgh.  Ragins, Schachter, Ratey, McLaughlin, et al.  And my wife who is not a senior analyst but was a student of all those.  She is reticent to talk about these issues but clearly knows more than I do.  
>>
>> Do you still deny that Trump's narcissism interferes with his ability to be president?  You seem to think it's independent of his incompetence.  I don't think so.
>