[FRIAM] Splatter was: the racist woo peddler

[Steve Smith]

Dave -
> Trump has problems with Mormons in general.
And they with him?  Best I can tell he has problems with everybody but
himself and maybe Ivanka.
> Romney's antipathy to trump epitomizes the "Mormon on the street."
I find Romney hard to identify as a "man on the street" (or more to the
point "backroad").   I grew up among salt-of-the-earth Mormons who
looked to their own business of taking care of their families and
communities.  He doesn't look or act (to me) a bit like any of them.  
Jeff Flake (of Snow-Flake AZ history) does a little better, but *both*
of them remind me a bit too much of the variants I discovered as an
adult when I entered (sub)communities where there were
>
> Nevertheless, Idaho, Utah, Nevada, Eastern Oregon, Western Montana,
> and Western Colorado where you will find large if not majority Mormon
> populations will vote decisively Republican.
>
> Note, I said Republican, not Trump.

The blatant tolerance (enabling) of Trump in the Republican party, the
myriad elected Republican politicians, and uncountable self-identified
Republican individuals says absolutely nothing good about "loyal
Republicans".   Even Conservatism(tm) is overdue for an overhaul.   And
I would love to see the same for Liberal/Progressives but for less
acutely damning reasons.    

As indicated elsewhere, I'm contemplating the implications of
Republicans re:Democratic-Republic and of Democrats
(more-direct-in-principle?) and wonder if you see that being the
distinguishing line, or if it is more about Conservative V.
Liberal/Progressive?  I wonder how your own lexicon presents on these names?

> If you would like a long treatise on why this is the case, I would be
> happy to send directly and not inflict on rest of list.

But of course.  I suspect I inflict way too much here in general...  but
everyone *does* have a <delete> button/key.

<delete!>

> One key, but likely surprising to "outsiders," element is a very self
> conscious separation of church and state (with one or two exceptions
> like gay marriage) among both the populace and the church leadership.

The Mormons I grew up amongst were very humble and kept their
eyes/minds/hands focused on taking care of their own families and
communities with a modest, positive, fair connection with the non-Mormon
communities/population.   My sister had two classmates (out of 20ish)
who were Mormon, I had no classmates thus.  Those families had no
significant involvement in politics in those areas, but when scratched,
they were rather proud (IMO) of their "cousins" heavy hitting in the
politics of the areas (White Mtns of AZ, St David AZ, etc.) where they
were the dominant culture/group.   To hear them tell it (though it may
have been my projection) the natural progression in the church hierarchy
was often reflected in a climb in local politics.   On one hand that
seems really easy/obvious, on the other I don't know how it squares with
your description here?   

I dated the eldest daughter (second child) in a Mormon family in HS and
we kept a (not-quite-exclusive) long-distance relationship through our
first year of college (me Flagstaff, she Provo) and got a strong, albeit
cynical, view of both a small but significant subcommunity distant from
the mother-ship, and then the heart of the mother-ship (BYU and the SLC
Temple).   She had no end of problems with the LDS church (mostly based
on the behaviour of her father, uncles, and many other adult men of the
church, and their wives for turning a blind eye to their hypocrisies and
abuses).  I talked her into taking me to service (once) which she had
been refusing (attendance) since about age 14 and her mother talked me
into joining them for their Family Home Evening twice (she held an open
invitation, but I worked most evenings and was uncomfortable around her
father who apparently was ONLY home for that one evening).  I took most
of her "stuff" on these topics as less-than-fair-but-not-entirely-baseless.

This was about the time that the issue of black members (very rare in my
area) not being allowed to serve as Patrol Leaders in LDS Boy Scout
programs as an extension to the whole Mark of Cain thing which was
overturned by "revalation" in 1978.   I don't know if the BSA/LDS
intersection is in any way a fair parallel with LDS/UT or LDS/USA, but
if it is, it did not look good... the LDS church got very much into the
BSA business in those days.  Later when I encountered communities where
the LDS church was NOT a minority... it felt/looked to me like they got
up in *all* the business around them, personal, commercial, and
political.   And I found my take on that to be a LOT less critical than
the average "gentile" ("philistine"?) living in those communities.

It doesn't surprise (or offend) me that the LDS church leans far
Right/Conservative/Republican... but allowing Trump to infiltrate and
co-opt their party is hard for me to resolve against all but the worst
caricatures of what I once knew the Mormon/LDS heritage to be about.  I
am glad Romney could stand up (a day late and a dollar short) to Trump a
little and Jeff Flake could at least "back out of the room" when he
realized that Trump "owned" his party.   But if (when) the regions you
describe as primarily LDS (and I concur) re-affirm their
confidence-in/approval-of Trump in November, it does significant damage
to my opinion of what I once knew as a thoughtful, grounded, moral (if
oftentimes flawed) population, up to many issues I disagree with them
on.  It makes them look like "tools" of the most ridiculous "Tool" of
all time.   But then it seems like we are a "Nation of Tools" these
days...  virtually everyone in my family of origin voted Trump 2016 for
reasons that were out of reach to me...  most are now pretending that
"they never really liked/trusted him"...  go figure.

Meanwhile, I applaud your decision to work at a convenience/fuel-stop in
these times.   I often imagine I really need to push myself into a
similar position, at least for a while.   I also very much appreciate
your participation and style in this group which is somewhat
fundamentally counter-aligned with many of your positions...  I doubt
you are the only counter-progressive-cultural element here, but one of
the few who make many waves.

grumble,

   - Steve

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