[FRIAM] wackos

[Marcus Daniels]

< Outsiderness is an affectation, nothing more. >

Yes, we should focus on the content of the RWW belief system and its consequences and do what is possible to delete or attenuate it on that basis.

Marcus
________________________________
From: Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com> on behalf of Prof David West <profwest at fastmail.fm>
Sent: Wednesday, December 2, 2020 10:15 AM
To: friam at redfish.com <friam at redfish.com>
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] wackos

Outsiderness is an affectation, nothing more.


On Wed, Dec 2, 2020, at 9:20 AM, uǝlƃ ↙↙↙ wrote:
> The "in our lives" part *should* have given my meaning. Obviously it
> did not. Whatever.
>
> But one who hooks their identity to their outsider-ness, then complains
> about non-outsiders may not be *technically* guilty of ethnocentrism.
> But that smacks of sophistry. All we need do is look at the "Revenge of
> the Nerds" series and the rise of the modern "nerd culture" to see
> that. You are only as outsider as you *choose* to be. We can choose not
> to listen to those around us. Not to see them as fellow outsiders. Or
> we can *pretend* that we're the select elite with special feelings of
> outsider-ness ... persecution complex?
>
> The reality is we all feel that way *most* of the time. This is the
> primary insight from social media. All we see in posts from
> "influencers" are the views from their "good side" ... sucking in their
> bellies on the beach in Belize ... adhering to their fad diet ...
> smiling ... What we DON'T see is selfies of them after downing a whole
> bag of cookies because their life is totally empty and they're about to
> commit suicide.
>
> We all *feel* like outsiders. That's part of the modern condition.  And
> it's very sad that many of us lack the empathy to see through the
> mirage.
>
> As to the wak culture I feel most comfortable in, that's the metal
> [sub]culture. Our flags and common dress are well known, tend toward
> earthy colors, particularly black. Satanic imagery. Particular ways of
> dancing. Tests of "street cred" by mentioning obscure artists,
> festivals, events, or styles (like downtuning). Etc. That this culture
> is *viewed* as wacko was evidenced by the "Satanic Panic" of the '80s
> and '90s and continues today in some ways. We've clawed our way to
> respectability over time as a sibling to other geek/outsider
> [sub]cultures. As for my own outsider-ness, I still don't fit that
> well, even there. One fellow member gave me the "side eye" when I told
> him I had switched from math rock and industrial to psytrance as my
> background music for programming grooves.
>
> On 12/2/20 7:08 AM, Prof David West wrote:
> > My original cite:
> >
> > /"what many of us purport to *want* ... common ground with which to have a discussion with the right wing wackos in our lives."/
> >
> > I took /"the right wing wackos in our lives"/ as a reference to a subset of the body of Trump supporters, and more specifically the 74 million who voted for him, that we happen to be in contact with.  I think that is consistent with comments in various threads about talking with / trying to understand Trumpists. Nick's and Marcus' responses in this thread would seem to affirm my reading of the referent. In that case, I stand by my remarks.
> >
> > It is quite possible that I was wrong. Your comments suggest that I was. Perhaps you literally meant to reference a group "Wackos," a subset of whom are "right wing" (without any implication that "right wing" within the wacko group have any correlation with right wing in a US political context), and the subset of them who are in our lives.
> >
> > If this is the case, then nothing I said pertains to Wackos or the Wacko culture. You would certainly be correct in asserting that I do not understand that culture, as I am unaware of the group, qua group, itself.
> >
> > However, I am the consummate outsider, identifying with no group nor culture and therefore can be guilty of egocentricsm, but never ethnocentrism.
> >
> > An ethnography of the Wacko culture would be an interesting project. As a self-professed, flag possessing, member of that culture, could you provide some pointers to the commonly accepted hallmarks of a culture: shared world view, shared language, shared values, shared customs/behaviors, shared modes of dress, definitions of kinship (blood or virtual), shared technology, etc.?
>
> --
> ↙↙↙ uǝlƃ
>
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