[FRIAM] alternative response

Sun Jun 14 15:55:46 EDT 2020

I was talking about you. When you say you don't believe in free will, how
do you think about what you are doing when you write messages to this group?

-- Russ Abbott
Professor, Computer Science
California State University, Los Angeles

On Sun, Jun 14, 2020 at 12:43 PM Marcus Daniels <marcus at snoutfarm.com>
wrote:

> I’m not sure if you are talking to me or Gary.  Anyway, I don’t believe in
> free will.
>
>
>
> *From: *Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com> on behalf of Russ Abbott <
> russ.abbott at gmail.com>
> *Reply-To: *"Russ.Abbott at gmail.com" <russ.abbott at gmail.com>, The Friday
> Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <friam at redfish.com>
> *Date: *Sunday, June 14, 2020 at 12:37 PM
> *To: *The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <
> friam at redfish.com>
> *Subject: *Re: [FRIAM] alternative response
>
>
>
> Marcus, you write as if you believe that you and others have what we
> normally call free will. Yet, that's not how science sees the world. I know
> it'd pretty hard not to act that way. Even so, that would seem to confirm
> Nick's claim.
>
>
>
> -- Russ Abbott
> Professor, Computer Science
> California State University, Los Angeles
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, Jun 14, 2020 at 12:30 PM Gary Schiltz <gary at naturesvisualarts.com>
> wrote:
>
> As someone who was a software something-or-other (engineer, developer,
> whatever) for a decade or three, my view is that the term "software
> engineering" is perhaps a good goal for the field, but has in practice been
> somewhat of a flop. Back in the first AI heyday of the late '70s and early
> '80s when I worked in the field, there was a term used to describe two
> camps/philosophies when applied to AI developers - "neats" and "scruffies".
> Neats were known for developing and applying well thought-out theories,
> while scruffies just wanted to dig in and try stuff. I've never had very
> good math skills or training, so I gravitated toward being a scruffy
> myself. It seems to me that there is at least some parallel between "neat
> vs scruffy" and "engineer vs hacker" mentality in software.
>
>
>
> On Sun, Jun 14, 2020 at 1:21 PM <thompnickson2 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Ah. So. Very interesting.
>
>
>
> So, software engineering is not a science. It’s a culture?  There is no
> right or wrong about it?
>
>
>
> Or, software engineer IS a science.  We proceed best if we assume that
> there will be, in the long run, a right and a wrong about it.
>
>
>
> What is the validator of rightness and wrongness in software engineering?
>
>
>
> N
>
>
>
> Nicholas Thompson
>
> Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology
>
> Clark University
>
> ThompNickSon2 at gmail.com
>
> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com> *On Behalf Of *Prof David West
> *Sent:* Sunday, June 14, 2020 12:16 PM
> *To:* friam at redfish.com
> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] alternative response
>
>
>
> Frank,
>
>
>
> I think the point of the herbalist is not that a herb will attack a virus
> directly, but that herbals will enhance a person's immune system in
> general, including ability to defend against viruses. That is a little less
> farfetched than the idea, I think, your comment was directed towards.
>
>
>
> Nick,
>
>
>
> Not as a 'scientist' but merely as a professional and in the discipline of
> software development. I have substituted my own judgement against the
> mainstream of Software Engineering since 1968 when SE was invented. My
> determination to do so is simply the fact that I am right and the rest of
> the world is insanely wrong.  :)
>
>
>
> davew
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, Jun 14, 2020, at 10:11 AM, thompnickson2 at gmail.com wrote:
>
> Hi, Dave,
>
>
>
> I am always interested when any of our members – we who are so hard on the
> “tin hat people” --,  departsfrom scientific orthodoxy.  What determines
> when a scientist substitutes his own judgement for that of colleagues in
> other disciplines?  That’s not a rhetorical question.  And, having done
> that, why would on ever go to a doctor again?  What about Linus Pauling and
> vitamin C?
>
>
>
> Has anybody heard from Bruce?  Did he make it across?
>
>
>
> Nick
>
>
>
> Nicholas Thompson
>
> Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology
>
> Clark University
>
> ThompNickSon2 at gmail.com
>
> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com> *On Behalf Of *Prof David West
>
> *Sent:* Sunday, June 14, 2020 7:15 AM
>
> *To:* friam at redfish.com
>
> *Subject:* [FRIAM] alternative response
>
>
>
> My time in Amsterdam put me dead center in the Vegan / Vegetarian / Herbal
> / Alternative Medicine community, with whom I still correspond. I received
> this book and a strong recommendation from them. Most of the people in that
> community are following the ideas in the book and claim high effectiveness.
>
>
>
> I have a deep respect for acupuncture and Ayurveda and similar traditions,
> but am highly skeptical of the "new age" stuff. Nevertheless, in case
> someone is curious/interested.
>
>
>
> *Herbal Antivirals: Natural Remedies for Emerging & Resistant Viral
> Infections*
>
>
>
> Take control of your health and learn how to use herbs safely and
> effectively to prevent and fight off a wide range of viral infections,
> including coronaviruses, SARS, influenza, encephalitis, dengue fever, and
> more. Expert herbalist Stephen Harrod Buhner offers this exhaustive guide
> to understanding the antiviral properties of dozens of herbs, backed up by
> the most recent research studies and findings. In addition to in-depth
> profiles of the herbs, Buhner provides complete, step-by-step instructions
> for obtaining high-quality herbs and preparing and using customized herbal
> formulations for strengthening the immune system and addressing each virus.
> Discover how these natural remedies can help keep you and your family
> healthy and strong.
>
>
>
> davew
>
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