[FRIAM] Political compass teest

Prof David West profwest at fastmail.fm
Mon Oct 12 23:02:05 EDT 2020 

Carl is very Japanese and master of Drum Zen.

davew


On Mon, Oct 12, 2020, at 8:50 PM, Steve Smith wrote:
> Carl -

> Acknowledged.   The foreground/background thing is always tricky.   I don't mean to attribute any reality to "personal freedoms", yet somehow "not being an ass" is something *like* respecting others "personal freedoms", even though such are in some sense an illusion.   Perhaps someone can articulate this better than I have?
> 
> - Steve
>> Steve, 
>> 
>> You assume I have some fealty to the notion of "personal freedoms".   Perhaps that is unwarranted.   I just see no reason to be an ass.
>> 
>>> >>I don't know you well Carl, but from what I do think I know, you are clearly *very* independent and *very* considerate of others and their personal freedoms.  That sounds pretty *l*ibertarian to me FWIW.
>> 
>> On Mon, Oct 12, 2020 at 10:18 AM Steve Smith <sasmyth at swcp.com> wrote:
>>> Carl Tollander wrote:
>>> 
>>>> -9,-8.1 
>>>> But I do think it would depend a bit on the day.
>>>> Oddly, never thought of myself as a libertarian.
>>> I think some pretty strong *Fascists* co-opted the term "Libertarian" for themselves.   My experience with the *L*ibertarian self-identified is they seem to lean toward a virulent extremist willingness to *assert their will* on others under the guise of protecting *their will from subversion* .   When I was younger (more juiced on the hormones and rhetoric and appeal of competition?) I was more seduced by some of that.  Now it just makes me feel systemically ill.

>>> I don't know you well Carl, but from what I do think I know, you are clearly *very* independent and *very* considerate of others and their personal freedoms.  That sounds pretty *l*ibertarian to me FWIW.

>>> - Steve

>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On Mon, Oct 12, 2020 at 8:48 AM Marcus Daniels <marcus at snoutfarm.com> wrote:
>>>>> There is another aspect of staying behind which puts more weight on maintaining local (e.g. family and childhood) relationships.   I don’t think this inclination is overtly authoritarian.   However, a strong desire to maintain a social fabric could lead to policing mechanisms for them, and that brings in (say) the church.  When a social network is more important than having any sort of purpose, weird things happen.   Wired has an article on some crazies up in Forks, Washington that is worth a skim. 

>>>>>  


>>>>> *From:* Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com> *On Behalf Of *David Eric Smith
>>>>> *Sent:* Monday, October 12, 2020 7:35 AM
>>>>> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <friam at redfish.com>
>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] Political compass teest

>>>>>  

>>>>> So this is metastasizing now, and there have been other decades when it wasn’t such a problem, or at least not as overt.

>>>>>  

>>>>> Is that due to demographic sorting?  In more prosperous (or even just earlier) times, enough people stayed near where they were born that cultures got some mix of preferences, and you didn’t have whole regions “submitting too much to the authorities in their lives”.  But when those who wanted out could get out, and did so systematically, the ones who stayed behind could create a tailored paradise for the preferences that had caused them to stay behind?


>>>>> 

>>>>>> On Oct 12, 2020, at 10:19 AM, Roger Critchlow <rec at elf.org> wrote:

>>>>>>  

>>>>>> https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2020/10/12/trump-voter-authoritarian-research/

>>>>>>  

>>>>>> -- rec --

>>>>>>  

>>>>>>  

>>>>>> On Sun, Oct 11, 2020 at 12:27 AM Marcus Daniels <marcus at snoutfarm.com> wrote:

>>>>>>> There’s a page on the 2020 election where they claim, among other strange things, that Warren is a right-leaning authoritarian.   If that is true, which I doubt, it says to me politicians are mirroring the electorate in a very obscure way.   And I am pretty sure I am not far to the left of Bernie Sanders. 

>>>>>>>  


>>>>>>> *From:* Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com> *On Behalf Of *Stephen Guerin
>>>>>>> *Sent:* Saturday, October 10, 2020 8:39 PM
>>>>>>> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <friam at redfish.com>
>>>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] Political compass teest

>>>>>>>  

>>>>>>> ec=-5.75 & soc=-6.3

>>>>>>>  

>>>>>>>  

>>>>>>>  

>>>>>>>  

>>>>>>> On Sat, Oct 10, 2020, 9:18 PM <thompnickson2 at gmail.com> wrote:

>>>>>>>> I’m more of a libertarian than Dave is?  Something MUST be wrong, here.

>>>>>>>>  

>>>>>>>> Nicholas Thompson

>>>>>>>> Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology

>>>>>>>> Clark University

>>>>>>>> ThompNickSon2 at gmail.com

>>>>>>>> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/ <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fwordpress.clarku.edu%2fnthompson%2f&c=E,1,U3OccPSjskXK4svW9X1qk3Vv7E5UwkKy9mLBuwBfoPfJKYxJ6aCBK0PVs7udT_TYGhprp1R603GJlx6xKqM35rw3C-x7J0zwGZ6_tMf3hqMPHZB64xRxPw,,&typo=1>

>>>>>>>>  

>>>>>>>>  


>>>>>>>> *From:* Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com> *On Behalf Of *Prof David West
>>>>>>>> *Sent:* Saturday, October 10, 2020 6:39 PM
>>>>>>>> *To:* friam at redfish.com
>>>>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] Political compass teest

>>>>>>>>  

>>>>>>>> Econ left/right:      -0.88

>>>>>>>> Social Lib/Auth:     -6.1

>>>>>>>>  

>>>>>>>> davew

>>>>>>>> NOT a Libertarian

>>>>>>>>  

>>>>>>>> On Sat, Oct 10, 2020, at 5:56 PM, thompnickson2 at gmail.com wrote:

>>>>>>>>> Do we all agree at an insanely high level?  Then wtf have we been arguing about all these years.  Let’s wait until Glen and Dave take the test before we bury all our hatchets.

>>>>>>>>>  

>>>>>>>>> n

>>>>>>>>>  

>>>>>>>>> Nicholas Thompson

>>>>>>>>> Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology

>>>>>>>>> Clark University

>>>>>>>>> ThompNickSon2 at gmail.com

>>>>>>>>> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/ <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fwordpress.clarku.edu%2fnthompson%2f&c=E,1,jI9pg2_C34oOCpyabOwNVYM7KJGCPx7H3EupAcE2q9TK2V75UO7IrMX_UOS1TIZ0puSAcbRFu09JGz8yK4gzt6DIJCqNtiA3EEOMsqYT64DoqXJS7TM,&typo=1>

>>>>>>>>>  

>>>>>>>>>  

>>>>>>>>>  

>>>>>>>>> *From:* Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com> *On Behalf Of *Gary Schiltz

>>>>>>>>> *Sent:* Saturday, October 10, 2020 5:29 PM

>>>>>>>>> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <friam at redfish.com>

>>>>>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] Political compass teest

>>>>>>>>>  

>>>>>>>>> I was pretty much dead center in the lower left quadrant, which was surprising to me. I would have thought I would be in the middle of the whole graph.

>>>>>>>>>  

>>>>>>>>> On Sat, Oct 10, 2020 at 4:52 PM George Duncan <gtduncan at gmail.com> wrote:

>>>>>>>>>> Jon, I took it. I'm barely left on economics and strongly libertarian on social issues

>>>>>>>>>>  

>>>>>>>>>> George Duncan

>>>>>>>>>> Emeritus Professor of Statistics, Carnegie Mellon University

>>>>>>>>>> georgeduncanart.com <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fgeorgeduncanart.com%2f&c=E,1,7A1nvLLwvbARh5EsbrcBP_x1ncqDWHW84o2ARPieWFtHxbGsgklMKBqeuNgbEd_czryT4FTxDDbM2mCDHXdJbmd_5-i0Yf4oVpAGGN27uHZ8&typo=1>

>>>>>>>>>> See posts on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram

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>>>>>>>>>> Mobile: (505) 469-4671

>>>>>>>>>>  

>>>>>>>>>> My art theme: Dynamic exposition of the tension between matrix order and luminous chaos.

>>>>>>>>>>  

>>>>>>>>>> "Attempt what is not certain. Certainty may or may not come later. It may then be a valuable delusion."

>>>>>>>>>> From "Notes to myself on beginning a painting" by Richard Diebenkorn. 

>>>>>>>>>> "It's that knife-edge of uncertainty where we come alive to our truest power." Joanna Macy.

>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>  

>>>>>>>>>>  

>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, Oct 10, 2020 at 3:22 PM jon zingale <jonzingale at gmail.com> wrote:

>>>>>>>>>>> I just took the political compass test and surprise surprise, I am a

>>>>>>>>>>> left-libertarian.

>>>>>>>>>>>  

>>>>>>>>>>> Take the test here if you are interested:

>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.politicalcompass.org/test <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fwww.politicalcompass.org%2ftest&c=E,1,e8hAuyhPdtiZ876M9sd6OmWzNeLJXSYR8MHrODvh3vN2g_nLrK21RY_5OBeUJlK4p0Rzh08Ymx64c4LiIgp7JiIDXXzqbbqx3zHFw_W8CPvxLq3_SnjwgA,,&typo=1>

>>>>>>>>>>>  

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>>>>>>>>>>>  

>>>>>>>>>>>  

>>>>>>>>>>>  

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>>>>>>>>>  

>>>>>>>>  


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>>>>>  

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