[FRIAM] vax v unvax

[Prof David West]

dave west does not recall making such an argument: *"people who talk about science are Scientismists, their God is Science."* Perhaps this is a straw man of something he may have said? But even that feels weird. He might feel comfortable with an assertion, ala Feyerabend, that the foundations of science include *"articles of faith,"* that are neither 'provable' nor 'objectively more rational' than religious articles of faith. But even here, he would insist that both science and religion have very few actual articles of faith while religion has millions of silly assertions of "TRUTH" while science tries to avoid same.

davew


On Wed, Aug 18, 2021, at 2:25 PM, uǝlƃ ☤>$ wrote:
> Ha! Yeah, we have other reasons to fire her, or at least suspend her. 
> Mainly she doesn't really clean all that well ... albeit according to a 
> couple of "Virgos" who have obsessive-compulsive tendencies anyway. I 
> also learned today that she's a "moral intuitionist" (ala silly people 
> like Michael Heumer). From her perspective, in response to 
> "censorship", "freedom of speech", and the glut of "information" out 
> there, the best way to decide what's true is to go with your gut and 
> pray. I tried to intervene with "science". But she then countered with 
> Dave West's argument that people who talk about science are 
> Scientismists, their God is Science. I then tried to explain that 
> science is a set of behaviors, methods, not a Thing. Nobody prays to 
> Science ... well, nobody serious anyway. There are many many theists 
> who also believe in scientific methods. But then she accused me of 
> appeal to authority, not being a scientist myself. [sigh] Irony is 
> dead. I apologized for upsetting her and went back to my Zoom meeting 
> of stultifying bureaucracy.
> 
> Why is everything so hard?
> 
> 
> On 8/18/21 1:06 PM, Marcus Daniels wrote:
> > Just don't invite her back until the pandemic has become endemic.   A distinction without a difference but then she can win the argument.  :-)
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com> On Behalf Of u?l? ?>$
> > Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2021 12:54 PM
> > To: FriAM <friam at redfish.com>
> > Subject: [FRIAM] vax v unvax
> > 
> > 
> > Soooo ... our house cleaner is anti-vax. My friends tell me we should fire her. I've resisted confronting her over it. But hospitals being overrun influenced me to press her a little bit. I claimed that the majority of hospitalizations are the unvaxxed. She claimed that down near her (I think closer to Centralia, WA), it was flipped, that the majority of hospitalizations were vaccinated. We had the usual conversation where she ended with "you believe your data and I believe my data" blather. So I decided to see if I could find news articles claiming the majority of hospitalized covid cases are the vaccinated. And I found this:
> > 
> > Higher Death, Hospitalization Rates Among Vaccinated Individuals: UK COVID-19 Data https://www.visiontimes.com/2021/07/04/deaths-hospital-vaccinated-uk.html
> > 
> > Most COVID-19 Patients at Israel Hospital Fully Vaccinated, Doctor Calls Mandates ‘Diabolic’
> > https://www.visiontimes.com/2021/08/08/israel-hospital-vaccinated.html
> > 
> > They're both from the "Vision Times", which looks to me like a Falun Gong outlet, popular with Trumpists, anti-CCP, etc. So, I don't really want to do any debunking or verification. I *want* to write it off as garbage. But their source: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1001359/Variants_of_Concern_VOC_Technical_Briefing_16.pdf seems legit. And the numbers in the article seem to match Table 4.
> > 
> > Plugging in the numbers from the latest briefing: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/investigation-of-novel-sars-cov-2-variant-variant-of-concern-20201201
> > 
> > It really does seem to show that the death rate among vaxxed is higher than that among unvaxxed.
> > 
> > The LifeSiteNews site is obviously troll nonsense. But my concern is mostly about that tech report from the UK and Herzog Hospital. Are these counter examples to the NYT unvax/vax data? Are they small enough to be within error?
> > 
> > --
> > ☤>$ uǝlƃ
> 
> 
> -- 
> ☤>$ uǝlƃ
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