[FRIAM] On the: RLY!? side

Thu Aug 26 00:18:50 EDT 2021

Nick,

it would be politically insensitive / incorrect for me to discuss America's
blacks in the context of, say, white plantation owners, "field hands" and
"house n**s" (not sure if I can use this word online nowadays) which
parallel India's untouchables or Japan's  Burakumin /Eta societal
structures.

Was it coincidence that the USA's most deadly COVID hotspots were
unhygienic meat "packing" factories which employ mostly lower income blacks
/ browns who were compelled to either work or lose their meagre medical
benefits ?

Sarbajit

On Thu, Aug 26, 2021 at 9:04 AM <thompnickson2 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Sarbajit,
>
>
>
> I am both fascinated and baffled by your note, and hope you will say
> more.  I am in the thrall of a book entitled CASTE which makes a parallel
> between the untouchables and American blacks.  So for you to associate high
> class with untouchability is disorienting.  I gather that the notion of
> Untouchables as a low caste includes a notion of Non-touchers as a high
> class?  I suppose it must, but I had never really thought about that.
>
>
>
> Nick
>
>
>
> Nick Thompson
>
> ThompNickSon2 at gmail.com
>
> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/
>
>
>
> *From:* Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com> *On Behalf Of *Sarbajit Roy
> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 25, 2021 10:41 PM
> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <
> friam at redfish.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] On the: RLY!? side
>
>
>
> Hi
>
> I would like to give you an "Asian" (perhaps culturally distasteful)
> perspective on this from India.
>
> India has (officially) the 2nd highest number of COVID-19 infections and
> deaths after the USA.
>
> However, within India, there is a small class of people, like me, called
> Adi Brahmins .. it's a Hindu caste,  who don't wear masks or take
> clinically unproven or untested vaccinations, mainly because we continually
> practice an ancient non-contact system known as UNTOUCHABILITY. Since
> Brahmins are traditionally the scientific / intellectual elite of India, we
> have known about virii, fomites, their modes of transmission, and how they
> cause infection and disease for centuries and we knew this empirically even
> before microscopes were invented.
>
> The rules and concepts of untouchability are drilled into Brahmin children
> from infancy, and we practice it scrupulously even if it is banned by law
> in India. And it's not as if we dont believe in Western medicine systems or
> science, I was drilled by my grandfather who was the Director General of
> India's Armed Forces ( .. aka Surgeon General of India), to the extent that
> even the metal cutlery at his dining table was "autoclaved" before we used
> them.
>
> The people who are contracting and dying of COVID in India are the ones
> who are fated to do so because of their own foolishness and ignorance, and
> also because India's government wanted them to die.
> https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-57005563
>
>
> Sarbajit Roy
>
> New Delhi, India
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Aug 26, 2021 at 4:31 AM Gillian Densmore <gil.densmore at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> Pieter: YES! thats what I was trying to ask. Personally I think the
> science and tech around Vaccinations just rocks. On the human side: It is
> amazingly cool what people can do what we decide to do so.
>
> you bring up a good point! I watched youtube videos from people that made
> the vaccines. LOL I did need to try to ask for a translation on what it
> meant to map the genetics. RNA. mRNA.  And when I learned how safe the
> vaccine was. Then I decided I couldn't get in line fast enough. It sounds
> like that's the opposite what some people are doing. It sounds like the
> hear: this was made using new medical technology, that hasn't neneded to be
> tested outside of labs until now. So they basically heard Fear And Doubt.
> Which is a shame.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 25, 2021 at 11:56 AM Marcus Daniels <marcus at snoutfarm.com>
> wrote:
>
> They aren't under a mandate to have sufficient capacity, or they'd have
> sufficient capacity.   Through a triage process they can prioritize.   It
> must happen already, even if it isn't legal.  Oh, the local drug addict is
> here again.  That guy is probably not #1 for the attention of the doctors.
> If enough big organizations like hospitals, grocery stores, etc. simply
> refuse to patronize people without evidence of vaccination, there doesn't
> need to be a mandate.   And it isn't just ERs, there are people getting
> allergy shots, getting physical therapy, eyeglasses adjusted, etc.  No
> shirt, no shoes, no vaccination, no service.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com> On Behalf Of u?l? ?>$
> Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2021 10:47 AM
> To: friam at redfish.com
> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] On the: RLY!? side
>
> That's just nonsense. By the time you're at the ER, the vaccine is largely
> irrelevant. Plus, when some 18 year old kid comes in unconscious with a
> gunshot wound, it's difficult to ask her if she's been vaccinated or not.
>
> Anyway, most large hospitals are under a mandate to treat whoever walks in
> the door, even if they don't have insurance. To make the change you suggest
> would require major legislative effort and, perhaps, re-architect the laws
> that govern public medicine. You're not gonna do that anytime soon.
>
> Taking a look at this site:
> https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2020/12/09/944379919/new-data-reveal-which-hospitals-are-dangerously-full-is-yours
> it seems the ratio of covid patients is actually lower than I thought. The
> actual problem is insufficient buffer capacity, not the surge in covid
> patients. The covid patients are simply demonstrating the problem.
>
>
> On 8/25/21 9:58 AM, Marcus Daniels wrote:
> > Will you consent to a vaccine?
> >
> > Yes:  You get treatment for your non-COVID condition.  No:  Get lost.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com> On Behalf Of u?l? ?>$
> > Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2021 9:53 AM
> > To: friam at redfish.com
> > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] On the: RLY!? side
> >
> > Because the majority of the patients in the ERs are not covid patients.
> (Last I heard the percentages were around 60-70% are non-covid. But I'm
> sure it's location dependent.) They're regular people with regular
> problems, many of whom delayed medical treatments for a year due to
> lockdowns. We did a little too much "just in time" logistical planning with
> our hospitals and this fairly tiny bump is demonstrating that our buffer
> wasn't high enough.
> >
> > The smart thing to do is increase capacity, correct the buffer size, and
> take care of both covid patients and regular people.
> >
> >
> > On 8/25/21 9:33 AM, Marcus Daniels wrote:
> >> Why should we increase the capacity of the hospitals?  Just don't let
> them in.
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com> On Behalf Of u?l? ?>$
> >> Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2021 9:25 AM
> >> To: friam at redfish.com
> >> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] On the: RLY!? side
> >>
> >> Well, only if you don't make a big stink out of it. If it's a normal,
> everyday thing, yeah sure. But if it's some litmus test for who's with us
> or who's against us, then they're much less willing to submit to such tests.
> >>
> >> You see this in spades w.r.t. to the protests. In Portland, they antifa
> are rigorous about staging counter protests, which makes the fascists dig
> in and be more committed to protesting, which makes the antifa more
> committed, ad infinitum. Here in Olympia, it's mostly just the fascists out
> there protesting mask and vaccine mandates. (Yes, irony is dead.) But as a
> result, they're anticlimactic and peter out pretty comfortably.
> >>
> >> Along the same lines of "don't feed the troll", if we focused our
> attention on increasing the capacities of hospitals rather than brow
> beating the anti-vaxers, I suspect the vax rate would climb steadily and
> the reactionary tendencies of the anti-vaxers would abate.
> >>
> >>
> >> On 8/25/21 9:09 AM, Marcus Daniels wrote:
> >>> These same people are willing to submit to an employer's drug tests.
>
>
> --
> ☤>$ uǝlƃ
>
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