[FRIAM] On the: RLY!? side

[Prof David West]

Explain themselves to _____? To you? For the purpose of _______?  Securing your approval?



On Thu, Aug 26, 2021, at 1:13 PM, Marcus Daniels wrote:
> They need to explain themselves, and it is entirely appropriate to make their lives risky and inconvenient until they do.
>  
> *From:* Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com> *On Behalf Of *Prof David West
> *Sent:* Thursday, August 26, 2021 12:07 PM
> *To:* friam at redfish.com
> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] On the: RLY!? side
> 
>  
> Glen is very sensitive to potential misrepresentation/misinterpretation of his words, as am I. I merely asked if Glen's sentences, which on their face seem to equate anti-vax and stupid, should be interpreted that way. In a sense I was trolling him because I know he would not make such a blanket and absolute assertion.
>  
> However, the entire tenor of the thread, and the public rhetoric regarding people holding anti-vax positions seems, to me, to be grounded in exactly this kind of assertion: "if _you_ (a person) are anti-vax _you_ are stupid (and probably a Trumpista or at least a Republican).
>  
> In my  opinion this kind of assertion is wrong, harmful, and, if your goal is to increase vaccination rates, entirely counter-productive.
>  
> davew
>  
>  
> On Thu, Aug 26, 2021, at 10:55 AM, uǝlƃ ☤>$ wrote:
> > I addressed the stupid people vs stupid acts. Dave makes that 
> > conflation. I don't.
> > 
> > But re: punishment - I also never claimed stupidity should be punished. 
> > I claimed stupidity should be painful. As a person who inflicts pain on 
> > myself daily, on purpose, it would be silly to identify pain with 
> > punishment. Futher, many of us are affected by chronic pain, often of 
> > unknown mechanism/origin. Sophistry about the problem of Evil 
> > notwithstanding, chronic pain is not the universe punishing you. The 
> > story of Job is a stupid story.
> > 
> > We *could* talk about pain as a mechanism for aversive learning, 
> > though. The chronic pain I suffer from has taught me how to (and that I 
> > must) moderately meter out my pain in order to avoid greater amounts of 
> > pain. Pain has taught me a great deal. It's not a punishment in the 
> > slightest sense of that word.
> > 
> > On 8/26/21 9:44 AM, thompnickson2 at gmail.com wrote:
> > > It would be good to make a distinction between "punishment" and "self-preservation".  There is something incoherent about asserting that stupid people need to be punished, because one of the salient features of stupidity is an inability to learn from experience.   
> > > 
> > > Also, don't we need to distinguish between stupid people and stupid acts?
> > -- 
> > ☤>$ uǝlƃ
> > 
> > - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. .
> > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> > Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6  bit.ly/virtualfriam
> > un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
> > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/
> > archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/
> > 
>  
> - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. .
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6  bit.ly/virtualfriam
> un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/
> archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/
> 
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/attachments/20210826/6d7f4f7c/attachment.html>