[FRIAM] On the: RLY!? side

[Marcus Daniels]

A woman brings in her husband to an ER having a heart attack, and she shows the staff vaccinations record for both of them, versus a man that obviously has COVID and his wife says there was no vaccination, and they never would consider it.  All things being equal if a choice is needed to take one first (because of lack of capacity), why should a nurse or doctor prioritize the person who makes it clear they have chosen to endanger the hospital workers?  There are interviews in the news lately with such people, some of them now dead.  I can dig them up if you want.

Yes, I understand there are practicalities make this hard to make policy, but as a thought experiment, why give a shit about the latter?   Given finite resources, some decisions about how to deploy staff have to be made.  Do these resources go to the COVID wing or not?

From: Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com> On Behalf Of Prof David West
Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2021 12:22 PM
To: friam at redfish.com
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] On the: RLY!? side



Explain themselves to _____? To you? For the purpose of _______?  Securing your approval?



On Thu, Aug 26, 2021, at 1:13 PM, Marcus Daniels wrote:

They need to explain themselves, and it is entirely appropriate to make their lives risky and inconvenient until they do.


From: Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com<mailto:friam-bounces at redfish.com>> On Behalf Of Prof David West
Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2021 12:07 PM
To: friam at redfish.com<mailto:friam at redfish.com>
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] On the: RLY!? side



Glen is very sensitive to potential misrepresentation/misinterpretation of his words, as am I. I merely asked if Glen's sentences, which on their face seem to equate anti-vax and stupid, should be interpreted that way. In a sense I was trolling him because I know he would not make such a blanket and absolute assertion.



However, the entire tenor of the thread, and the public rhetoric regarding people holding anti-vax positions seems, to me, to be grounded in exactly this kind of assertion: "if you (a person) are anti-vax you are stupid (and probably a Trumpista or at least a Republican).



In my  opinion this kind of assertion is wrong, harmful, and, if your goal is to increase vaccination rates, entirely counter-productive.



davew





On Thu, Aug 26, 2021, at 10:55 AM, uǝlƃ ☤>$ wrote:

> I addressed the stupid people vs stupid acts. Dave makes that

> conflation. I don't.

>

> But re: punishment - I also never claimed stupidity should be punished.

> I claimed stupidity should be painful. As a person who inflicts pain on

> myself daily, on purpose, it would be silly to identify pain with

> punishment. Futher, many of us are affected by chronic pain, often of

> unknown mechanism/origin. Sophistry about the problem of Evil

> notwithstanding, chronic pain is not the universe punishing you. The

> story of Job is a stupid story.

>

> We *could* talk about pain as a mechanism for aversive learning,

> though. The chronic pain I suffer from has taught me how to (and that I

> must) moderately meter out my pain in order to avoid greater amounts of

> pain. Pain has taught me a great deal. It's not a punishment in the

> slightest sense of that word.

>

> On 8/26/21 9:44 AM, thompnickson2 at gmail.com<mailto:thompnickson2 at gmail.com> wrote:

> > It would be good to make a distinction between "punishment" and "self-preservation".  There is something incoherent about asserting that stupid people need to be punished, because one of the salient features of stupidity is an inability to learn from experience.

> >

> > Also, don't we need to distinguish between stupid people and stupid acts?

> --

> ☤>$ uǝlƃ

>

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