[FRIAM] bad covid story

[Eric Charles]

Letting people try long shot, even mystical attempts, to save a person we
are virtually certain is going to die is less cruel. (If we can let
ministers pray with patients, we can give them a Vitamin D pill.)

Finding a way to let people see their dying family member, whatever that
method may need to be, is less cruel. (The idea that the doctors have to
calculate the risk of being accused of murder if they arrange it is a
negative aspect of the situation, not a positive one.)

When you are virtually certain a patient is going to die, not saying "I
won't won't let you die" is less cruel. (It is cruel to the patient, it is
cruel to the family, and, frankly, the idea that anyone should have to say
such lies is cruel to the person saying the lie.)

Not going out of your way to convince a family to come to the hospital if
you know you won't let them in, is less cruel.

Not seeking them out while they are still in fight-mode, to tell them in
person that the patient died, is less cruel.

Being prepared for extremely negative reactions in situations where
extremely negative reactions are likely to occur, is less cruel.

Not blaming them for your leaving the profession, after a series of
unforced errors on your part, is less cruel.

Do you remember the UK case with Alphie Evans? When the doctors decided
the kid should have to stay and die in a UK hospital, rather than be
transferred to a hospital where doctors wanted to try a long-shot
treatment?  Alfie Evans not allowed to leave country, UK court says | CNN
<https://www.cnn.com/2018/04/25/health/alfie-evans-appeal-bn/index.html> That
was about as dystopian and cruel as health care rules can possibly get, and
it followed all the laws and statutes and policies that existed for
rational reasons. As a fan of dystopian stories, I can assure you that it
is common for them to feature bureaucracies following rationally
constructed laws and statutes.

I do agree with Marcus that it would have been much better if the family
had proactively identified someone who would more closely follow the
treatment path they wanted. I don't know what the initial path to
hospitalization was.

<echarles at american.edu>


On Mon, Dec 27, 2021 at 12:28 PM glen <gepropella at gmail.com> wrote:

> This is unadulterated bullshit. Sure, perhaps in some ideal world, where
> all people are rational and all systems are frictionless, "the process
> could have been much less cruel". It's bullshit in Frankfurt's sense
> because it's not quite a lie and it's not quite the truth. And given your
> (EricC) ability to think clearly and pay attention to detail, we can only
> assume you *know* it's bullshit.
>
> If it could have been much less cruel, then please suggest the concrete
> modifications to the current byzantine set of laws, P&Ps, cultural norms,
> agency recommendations, political forces, etc. that would get us from here
> to there. (Not the impractical nonsense in your bullets like patients'
> family members prescribing meds that nurses will administer. Really?
> Sheesh.) If you cannot get us, practically, from where we are now to that
> less cruel place, then you're just blowing idealist smoke.
>
>
> On 12/27/21 09:18, Eric Charles wrote:
> > Even if, by the time the story starts, he was going to die no matter
> what happened, the process by which that happened could have been much less
> cruel.
> --
> glen
> Theorem 3. There exists a double master function.
>
>
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