[FRIAM] the power of metaphor.

Steve Smith sasmyth at swcp.com
Thu Jan 7 18:37:38 EST 2021


Kinda like the villain in a melodrama that spends the entire "last act"
dying dramatically.

On 1/7/21 3:57 PM, Frank Wimberly wrote:
> One of the senior psychoanalysts in Pittsburgh once said to my wife
> that nothing is sadder than the last act of a narcissist.
>
> "Act" as a metaphor for part of a play.  I will be interested to learn
> whether I will have empathy for Trump during his last act.
>
> Frank
> ---
> Frank C. Wimberly
> 140 Calle Ojo Feliz,
> Santa Fe, NM 87505
>
> 505 670-9918
> Santa Fe, NM
>
> On Thu, Jan 7, 2021, 3:40 PM Marcus Daniels <marcus at snoutfarm.com
> <mailto:marcus at snoutfarm.com>> wrote:
>
>     The feeling must at least be bounded – it is simulated and
>     controlled.   One is trying to get the upper hand.   
>
>      
>
>     *From:* Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com
>     <mailto:friam-bounces at redfish.com>> *On Behalf Of *Prof David West
>     *Sent:* Thursday, January 7, 2021 2:36 PM
>     *To:* friam at redfish.com <mailto:friam at redfish.com>
>     *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] the power of metaphor.
>
>      
>
>     It states that making a connection by showing the target empathy
>     is a great way to get past defenses and obtain more credible
>     information than torture — and it said this long before CIA idiots
>     decided that waterboarding was the way to go.
>
>      
>
>     davew
>
>      
>
>      
>
>     On Thu, Jan 7, 2021, at 1:21 PM, thompnickson2 at gmail.com
>     <mailto:thompnickson2 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>         I wonder what the cia handbook says about empathy during
>         interrogation.
>
>          
>
>         n
>
>          
>
>         Nicholas Thompson
>
>         Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology
>
>         Clark University
>
>         ThompNickSon2 at gmail.com <mailto:ThompNickSon2 at gmail.com>
>
>         https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/
>         <https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/>
>
>          
>
>          
>
>          
>
>         *From:* Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com
>         <mailto:friam-bounces at redfish.com>> *On Behalf Of *Marcus Daniels
>
>         *Sent:* Thursday, January 7, 2021 1:41 PM
>
>         *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
>         <friam at redfish.com <mailto:friam at redfish.com>>
>
>         *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] the power of metaphor.
>
>          
>
>         If the CIA builds up a dossier on the foibles of a foreign
>         leader and possible ways to manipulate that leader, I would
>         not call that empathy.   Can one get in the skin of another
>         without feeling their pain or validating it?   I think one
>         certainly can, and that it can be better to do that in many
>         situations.  
>
>          
>
>         *From:* Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com
>         <mailto:friam-bounces at redfish.com>> *On Behalf Of
>         *thompnickson2 at gmail.com <mailto:thompnickson2 at gmail.com>
>
>         *Sent:* Thursday, January 7, 2021 11:29 AM
>
>         *To:* 'The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group'
>         <friam at redfish.com <mailto:friam at redfish.com>>
>
>         *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] the power of metaphor.
>
>          
>
>         Does seeing imply visual vulnerability?  Hearing imply
>         auditory vulnerability?  Well, I suppose.  Any time we make
>         ourselves open to information, I suppose we are in some sense
>         vulnerable.  But aren’t we also impowered?  Feelings only make
>         one vulnerable if one fails to process them. 
>
>          
>
>         N
>
>          
>
>         Nicholas Thompson
>
>         Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology
>
>         Clark University
>
>         ThompNickSon2 at gmail.com <mailto:ThompNickSon2 at gmail.com>
>
>         https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/
>         <https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/>
>
>          
>
>          
>
>          
>
>         *From:* Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com
>         <mailto:friam-bounces at redfish.com>> *On Behalf Of *Marcus Daniels
>
>         *Sent:* Thursday, January 7, 2021 12:03 PM
>
>         *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
>         <friam at redfish.com <mailto:friam at redfish.com>>
>
>         *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] the power of metaphor.
>
>          
>
>         A problem with empathy is that it typically understood to be a
>         “feeling”.   Feeling means offering vulnerability.    The
>         class of people we are discussing should not be offered
>         that.   They should be shown, in a calm and steady manner, to
>         a bland government bus after the empathy value is firmly in
>         the off position.
>
>          
>
>         *From:* Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com
>         <mailto:friam-bounces at redfish.com>> *On Behalf Of
>         *thompnickson2 at gmail.com <mailto:thompnickson2 at gmail.com>
>
>         *Sent:* Thursday, January 7, 2021 9:51 AM
>
>         *To:* 'The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group'
>         <friam at redfish.com <mailto:friam at redfish.com>>
>
>         *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] the power of metaphor.
>
>          
>
>         Well, I hate to shortcut a perfectly good argument, but I
>         think, now, we agree.  If you concede that empathy is a form
>         of perception whose value as information cannot be denied, I
>         can readily agree that so focusing on one’s empathy as to
>         avoid all other sources of information is dangerous and
>         stupid  /and cloying. / 
>
>          
>
>         Nick
>
>          
>
>         Nicholas Thompson
>
>         Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology
>
>         Clark University
>
>         ThompNickSon2 at gmail.com <mailto:ThompNickSon2 at gmail.com>
>
>         https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/
>         <https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/>
>
>          
>
>          
>
>          
>
>         *From:* Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com
>         <mailto:friam-bounces at redfish.com>> *On Behalf Of *Marcus Daniels
>
>         *Sent:* Thursday, January 7, 2021 11:39 AM
>
>         *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
>         <friam at redfish.com <mailto:friam at redfish.com>>
>
>         *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] the power of metaphor.
>
>          
>
>         Sure, I use my eyes and visual cortex to judge the speed of an
>         oncoming car.   But I shouldn’t model that last fractions of a
>         second before impact in luxurious detail.  That’s suicidal.  I
>         should step on the brakes or the gas to avoid the collision.  
>         That’s what all this empathy talk strikes me as – giving
>         dangerous people so many mental cycles that they do collide
>         into you.    Wringing ones hands before victimization is
>         complete.  No, take the mental cycles and develop some tactics
>         and strategy for preventing these people from being dangerous.  
>
>          
>
>         I only mention Ted Cruz because he seems a slightly
>         interesting person, in a sort of satanic way.   Most of the
>         others are mad dogs as far as I am concerned.
>
>          
>
>         *From:* Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com
>         <mailto:friam-bounces at redfish.com>> *On Behalf Of
>         *thompnickson2 at gmail.com <mailto:thompnickson2 at gmail.com>
>
>         *Sent:* Thursday, January 7, 2021 9:30 AM
>
>         *To:* 'The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group'
>         <friam at redfish.com <mailto:friam at redfish.com>>
>
>         *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] the power of metaphor.
>
>          
>
>         Marcus,
>
>          
>
>         You could not have written what you wrote here, with it’s
>         searing pointedness, without empathy.  Empathy is not an
>         ideology; is an organ of perception. 
>
>          
>
>         n
>
>          
>
>         Nicholas Thompson
>
>         Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology
>
>         Clark University
>
>         ThompNickSon2 at gmail.com <mailto:ThompNickSon2 at gmail.com>
>
>         https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/
>         <https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/>
>
>          
>
>          
>
>          
>
>         *From:* Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com
>         <mailto:friam-bounces at redfish.com>> *On Behalf Of *Marcus Daniels
>
>         *Sent:* Thursday, January 7, 2021 11:05 AM
>
>         *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
>         <friam at redfish.com <mailto:friam at redfish.com>>
>
>         *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] the power of metaphor.
>
>          
>
>         The prior reflections by Glen on young adulthood makes me
>         wonder about Ted’s.   Was there a particular point at which he
>         decided to be a public person and that he realized he could
>         find an angle in any situation?   Did he anticipate what his
>         life would become, or did he just fall into it?  Sometimes it
>         seems like he doesn’t even enjoy it.   It seems there is no
>         objective distance he gets from his nihilism.  There’s just
>         always the next thing he has to do.
>
>          
>
>         *From:* Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com
>         <mailto:friam-bounces at redfish.com>> *On Behalf Of
>         *thompnickson2 at gmail.com <mailto:thompnickson2 at gmail.com>
>
>         *Sent:* Thursday, January 7, 2021 8:53 AM
>
>         *To:* 'The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group'
>         <friam at redfish.com <mailto:friam at redfish.com>>
>
>         *Subject:* [FRIAM] the power of metaphor.
>
>          
>
>         Bret Stephens, a NYT columnist, described Ted Cruz as “a
>         serpent covered in Vaseline” .  Will I ever get that image out
>         of my head?
>
>          
>
>         Nick
>
>          
>
>         Nicholas Thompson
>
>         Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology
>
>         Clark University
>
>         ThompNickSon2 at gmail.com <mailto:ThompNickSon2 at gmail.com>
>
>         https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/
>         <https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/>
>
>          
>
>          
>
>          
>
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>      
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