[FRIAM] coding versus music

Wed Jan 27 14:16:13 EST 2021

I am no longer an *effective* coder in the same sense Dave describes.  
But that doesn't mean I can't read and write code in a number of
languages and idioms.  But it does mean that nobody should pay me for
that work except insomuch as it is incidental to what I'm *really* doing
for their filthy lucre.   It is very handy that I *can* read/write code
across  a wide spectrum of languages/idioms, but far from acutely
useful...  If I had to make a living doing it, I might be able to scrape
enough rust off to be useful with it in a few restricted contexts, and
probably paid out at roughly minimum wage, suggesting I would only take
that kind of work in lieu of pumping gas (nobody outside of NJ/OR/NZ)
actually pumps gas for a living anymore?!  I could probably do better
cutting firewood or as a handyman or shade-tree mechanic.  And in the
latter two cases, my main value would be triage/addressing of trivial
problems followed by prescribing one kind of specialist or another for
the actual skilled labor implied in many cases.  

I think that learning coding skills is something valuable to add to
one's toolbox, not unlike learning how to weld/solder/braze (minimally)
or do rough carpentry or learn the basics of fasteners and sealers
(glue, nails, screws, caulk, varnish, paint, oil, etc.)  

The open question here is perhaps how well it helps one learn to
communicate with humans (thus co-).   I think it expands one's
metaphorical domains to work with, but it is more universally useful to
describe a linear set of logical instructions into something more
familiar like a Recipe or some colloquialism like "rinse... repeat" or
navigational instructions (how to get here from there) or assemble
furniture (open the box, inspect the contents, consider the final
configuration, skim the directions for unexpected dependencies, execute
step 1, iterate through numbered steps to final, VIOLA bookcase!)

I find that *many* capable coders are NOT particularly capable
communicators.   Among other things, their empathy is often stunted,
possibly by being too focused on *rigor* vs *clarity* in the sense of
GEPR/NST's discussion upthread.  

On the other hand, following Glen's conception of "self-programming" I
think the Mr. Myagi/Karate Kid example is a good one.   We learn a set
of actions, independent of understanding final purpose, ultimately
developing a set of universal skills which are equally good for waxing a
car or brushing aside an opponent's strike.   I don't know that Myagi
nor the KK were coders by the definition here...   but in a fairly
strong sense, that was what was going on.   Similarly, a lot of
conventional rote learning is like that....  the way we learn our
times-tables, or diagram sentences,  study for an anatomy or biology exam.

My $.02 (inflation adjusted)

- Steve

On 1/27/21 11:45 AM, Prof David West wrote:
> Nick,
>
> I am no longer a good programmer/coder, although once ...  Really good
> coders like Glen, Marcus, Jon ... on the list, will probably disagree
> with me; but:
>
> Coding/programming is not communication — if restricted to coder ---->
> machine -----> machine action. The machine is nothing more than the
> embodiment of a mathematical abstraction and coding is analogous to
> rearranging the symbols in a mathematical expression, such that, when
> resolved, the expression yields different results.
>
> No boss says what you quoted, but few programmers have not had the
> experience of "the damn machine keeps doing what I told it, instead of
> what I want."
>
> But — a program has two audiences: the machine (no communication here)
> and other programmers (tons of miscommunication here). This is what
> the reference from Eric Smith talks about. There is an entire, usually
> ignored, paradigm in computer science called "literate programming"  —
> the most prominent advocate, Donald Knuth.
>
> If one were skilled at literate programming, one would be
> communicating to another programmer (or herself at a later point in
> time) all the knowledge and meaning necessary for the latter to
> understand, modify, enhance, or correct the program as needs be. *_If
> possible_* this would be a communication skill worth developing —
> might lead to more precise and accurate communication outside the
> world of the computer.
>
> *"If possible,"* is key. Many, starting with Peter Naur, would argue
> that this kind of programmer-to=programmer communication is impossible
> because the medium, the code plus any written documentation, is too
> impoverished to communicate what needs to be communicated. In Naur's
> world, programming is joint theory building — a theory of "an affair
> in the world and how the program (addresses) it." Code and
> documentation represent maybe a tenth of that theory, the remainder
> being in the heads of those who developed it.
>
> davew
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 27, 2021, at 10:56 AM, thompnickson2 at gmail.com
> <mailto:thompnickson2 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> This flies in the face of my belief that you coders know something
>> about life that we citizens need to know.   I imagine coding to be
>> like trying to write an instruction to a person such that that person
>> always does what you want them to do.  So, it is an act of
>> communication in which the communicatee is always right, no matter
>> how idiotic may be it’s response.  No boss ever says to a coder,
>> “Your code was brilliant but unfortunately the machine didn’t
>> understand you.” 
>>
>>  
>>
>> Am I right about any of that?
>>
>>  
>>
>> Nick Thompson
>>
>> ThompNickSon2 at gmail.com <mailto:ThompNickSon2 at gmail.com>
>>
>> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/
>> <https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/>
>>
>>  
>>
>>
>> *From:* Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com> *On Behalf Of *Prof David West
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 27, 2021 11:41 AM
>> *To:* friam at redfish.com
>> *Subject:* [FRIAM] coding versus music
>>
>>
>>  
>>
>> For a while now there has been a huge push to teach kids how to code.
>> Ostensibly because it enhances skills like language, logic, and math;
>> plus, "computer literacy" is essential in a world filled with computers.
>>
>>  
>>
>> A study at MIT suggests that coding skill is orthogonal to reading
>> skill and has little, if any, influence on development of logic/math
>> skills.
>>
>>  
>>
>> An article in the Journal of Neuroscience argues that if you want to
>> increase the "skills and brainpower" of kids you should teach them music.
>>
>>  
>>
>> I came across this information peripherally and have not read the
>> specific research reported on. I *_want_* the reports to be accurate
>> representation of the research because it confirms long held biases
>> against the value of "computational thinking" and computer science as
>> a fundamental knowledge domain.
>>
>>  
>>
>> dave west
>>
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