[FRIAM] coding versus music

Wed Jan 27 14:36:07 EST 2021

I was largely paid for developing software during my career.  This explains
my impoverished publication record to some extent (50 refereed
papers/presentations).  In my last career position, I developed a large
library of Java programs for implementing algorithms in the area of
statistical causal reasoning (I should have said "SCR").  What I often did
was to write an English description of the purpose of the method or class
and include that in comments at the beginning.  Then I would include the
pseudocode or other description of each step of the algorithm also in
comments.  When Joe Ramsey took over this work I believe he said I had made
it easy for him to understand my code.  I know he said that my unit tests
were excellent.  That was because I used a well-documented and complex
example to test the methods.  I would then throw an exception if any
important intervening variable was computed to have a value that was
incorrect.  FWIW.

Frank

On Wed, Jan 27, 2021 at 12:16 PM Steve Smith <sasmyth at swcp.com> wrote:

> I am no longer an *effective* coder in the same sense Dave describes.
> But that doesn't mean I can't read and write code in a number of languages
> and idioms.  But it does mean that nobody should pay me for that work
> except insomuch as it is incidental to what I'm *really* doing for their
> filthy lucre.   It is very handy that I *can* read/write code across  a
> wide spectrum of languages/idioms, but far from acutely useful...  If I had
> to make a living doing it, I might be able to scrape enough rust off to be
> useful with it in a few restricted contexts, and probably paid out at
> roughly minimum wage, suggesting I would only take that kind of work in
> lieu of pumping gas (nobody outside of NJ/OR/NZ) actually pumps gas for a
> living anymore?!  I could probably do better cutting firewood or as a
> handyman or shade-tree mechanic.  And in the latter two cases, my main
> value would be triage/addressing of trivial problems followed by
> prescribing one kind of specialist or another for the actual skilled labor
> implied in many cases.
>
> I think that learning coding skills is something valuable to add to one's
> toolbox, not unlike learning how to weld/solder/braze (minimally) or do
> rough carpentry or learn the basics of fasteners and sealers (glue, nails,
> screws, caulk, varnish, paint, oil, etc.)
>
> The open question here is perhaps how well it helps one learn to
> communicate with humans (thus co-).   I think it expands one's metaphorical
> domains to work with, but it is more universally useful to describe a
> linear set of logical instructions into something more familiar like a
> Recipe or some colloquialism like "rinse... repeat" or navigational
> instructions (how to get here from there) or assemble furniture (open the
> box, inspect the contents, consider the final configuration, skim the
> directions for unexpected dependencies, execute step 1, iterate through
> numbered steps to final, VIOLA bookcase!)
>
> I find that *many* capable coders are NOT particularly capable
> communicators.   Among other things, their empathy is often stunted,
> possibly by being too focused on *rigor* vs *clarity* in the sense of
> GEPR/NST's discussion upthread.
>
> On the other hand, following Glen's conception of "self-programming" I
> think the Mr. Myagi/Karate Kid example is a good one.   We learn a set of
> actions, independent of understanding final purpose, ultimately developing
> a set of universal skills which are equally good for waxing a car or
> brushing aside an opponent's strike.   I don't know that Myagi nor the KK
> were coders by the definition here...   but in a fairly strong sense, that
> was what was going on.   Similarly, a lot of conventional rote learning is
> like that....  the way we learn our times-tables, or diagram sentences,
> study for an anatomy or biology exam.
>
> My $.02 (inflation adjusted)
>
> - Steve
> On 1/27/21 11:45 AM, Prof David West wrote:
>
> Nick,
>
> I am no longer a good programmer/coder, although once ...  Really good
> coders like Glen, Marcus, Jon ... on the list, will probably disagree with
> me; but:
>
> Coding/programming is not communication — if restricted to coder ---->
> machine -----> machine action. The machine is nothing more than the
> embodiment of a mathematical abstraction and coding is analogous to
> rearranging the symbols in a mathematical expression, such that, when
> resolved, the expression yields different results.
>
> No boss says what you quoted, but few programmers have not had the
> experience of "the damn machine keeps doing what I told it, instead of what
> I want."
>
> But — a program has two audiences: the machine (no communication here) and
> other programmers (tons of miscommunication here). This is what the
> reference from Eric Smith talks about. There is an entire, usually ignored,
> paradigm in computer science called "literate programming"  — the most
> prominent advocate, Donald Knuth.
>
> If one were skilled at literate programming, one would be communicating to
> another programmer (or herself at a later point in time) all the knowledge
> and meaning necessary for the latter to understand, modify, enhance, or
> correct the program as needs be. *If possible* this would be a
> communication skill worth developing — might lead to more precise and
> accurate communication outside the world of the computer.
>
> *"If possible,"* is key. Many, starting with Peter Naur, would argue that
> this kind of programmer-to=programmer communication is impossible because
> the medium, the code plus any written documentation, is too impoverished to
> communicate what needs to be communicated. In Naur's world, programming is
> joint theory building — a theory of "an affair in the world and how the
> program (addresses) it." Code and documentation represent maybe a tenth of
> that theory, the remainder being in the heads of those who developed it.
>
> davew
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 27, 2021, at 10:56 AM, thompnickson2 at gmail.com wrote:
>
> This flies in the face of my belief that you coders know something about
> life that we citizens need to know.   I imagine coding to be like trying to
> write an instruction to a person such that that person always does what you
> want them to do.  So, it is an act of communication in which the
> communicatee is always right, no matter how idiotic may be it’s response.
> No boss ever says to a coder, “Your code was brilliant but unfortunately
> the machine didn’t understand you.”
>
>
>
> Am I right about any of that?
>
>
>
> Nick Thompson
>
> ThompNickSon2 at gmail.com
>
> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com> <friam-bounces at redfish.com> *On
> Behalf Of *Prof David West
> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 27, 2021 11:41 AM
> *To:* friam at redfish.com
> *Subject:* [FRIAM] coding versus music
>
>
>
>
> For a while now there has been a huge push to teach kids how to code.
> Ostensibly because it enhances skills like language, logic, and math; plus,
> "computer literacy" is essential in a world filled with computers.
>
>
>
> A study at MIT suggests that coding skill is orthogonal to reading skill
> and has little, if any, influence on development of logic/math skills.
>
>
>
> An article in the Journal of Neuroscience argues that if you want to
> increase the "skills and brainpower" of kids you should teach them music.
>
>
>
> I came across this information peripherally and have not read the specific
> research reported on. I *want* the reports to be accurate representation
> of the research because it confirms long held biases against the value of
> "computational thinking" and computer science as a fundamental knowledge
> domain.
>
>
>
> dave west
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-- 
Frank Wimberly
140 Calle Ojo Feliz
Santa Fe, NM 87505
505 670-9918

Research:  https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Frank_Wimberly2
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