[FRIAM] lurking

Steve Smith sasmyth at swcp.com
Mon Nov 8 17:52:30 EST 2021


On 11/8/21 9:51 AM, Marcus Daniels wrote:
>
> I suppose they could require players walk through a x-ray machine to 
> find neural implants.
>
Or a strong MRI to "rip them out" if they are conducting?


> *From:* Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com> *On Behalf Of *Prof David West
> *Sent:* Monday, November 8, 2021 8:43 AM
> *To:* friam at redfish.com
> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] lurking
>
> You would be surprised at what casinos can ban. Maybe even more 
> surprised at the, not necessarily AI, software tools they use to 
> analyze video feeds and pounce on any kind of statistically 
> improbabilities. Most casinos in Vegas have tools, like mandatory side 
> bets with very low odds, that erase the near equal odds of blackjack.
>
> The only 'safe' gambling is poker where the house has no direct 
> interest in the outcome.
>
> As DES stated, winning is a matter of patience and losing antes only, 
> until you get good hand and then skill of playing that hand for 
> maximum return — playing less worse than the others at the table.
>
> I am living in Vegas now and playing small tournaments fairly regularly.
>
> davew
>
> On Sun, Nov 7, 2021, at 7:23 PM, Steve Smith wrote:
>
>     On 11/7/21 12:02 PM, David Eric Smith wrote:
>
>         There must be some kind of “Back to the future” movie that can
>         be made out of this.  Doyne Farmer in Vegas all over again,
>         but with current-era AI in place of toe-operated computers.
>
>     Yah!  Surely Casinos can't begin to restrict
>     computers(phones)/earbuds, etc.  on the gaming floor.
>
>     Strange coincidence that my sister went to Kindergarten with Vance
>     Packard (Norm's brother) in Silver City long before they all
>     became eagle scouts and then the Chaos Cabal.  We moved away the
>     next year and I doubt I ever met any of them back then.   I came
>     to LANL just before (I think) Doyne came... I seem to remember
>     that Norm was there for a summer...  and soon came the (in)famous
>     CA conference...   As I remember it the game of interest (aside
>     from Life, what with Conway in attendance) was GO with a lot of
>     speculation about the implications of local vs global
>     "intelligence"...   I was intrigued by HashLife and it's
>     implications for finding structure at many scales... I still hope
>     for someone with more follow-through than I have to implement a
>     more redundant but "thorough" space-time decomposition (an N-1xN-1
>     kernel over the 4 positions at each "zoom" level).
>
>     Regarding poker.. I played some low-stakes in college and saw
>     there were two things to take in:   the main technical skill was
>     to simply play less poorly than the other players at the table and
>     that was entirely overshadowed by the social-engineering games of
>     bluffing, etc.   The very simple game-theoretic aspect of not
>     depleting your own stake before you catch a "lucky streak" going
>     your way was also a good understanding.   I played with my "boss"
>     and a number of peers at the time and realized that it was more
>     about jockeying for position at work and drinking beer than it was
>     about winning/losing.  I think the most I ever lost/won was on the
>     order of $20-$40 which in those days was roughly 1-2 shifts
>     wages... a LOT if I joined them weekly... too rich for my blood! 
>     I still feel that *technically* playing well really means just
>     playing less badly.   Blackjack being even more obviously so?
>
>         Yikes.
>
>             On Nov 7, 2021, at 1:56 PM, Marcus Daniels
>             <marcus at snoutfarm.com> wrote:
>
>             My inclination would be to invest in standoff biometrics
>             (e.g. Eulerian Video Amplification) and then find the best
>             poker playing code.   It ought to be possible to automate
>             and perhaps get rich in the process.
>
>             *From:*Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com>*On Behalf Of*Eric
>             Charles
>
>             *Sent:*Sunday, November 7, 2021 7:42 AM
>
>             *To:*The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
>             <friam at redfish.com>
>
>             *Subject:*Re: [FRIAM] lurking
>
>             I DID read all the thread so far... but I'm curious how we
>             got to one of the starting points: "as cringy as it may be
>             for some dork to be proud of their Poker prowess"
>
>             I am somewhat satisfied with my Poker mediocrity,
>             certainly not proud of it... but if I met someone who was
>             ACTUALLY startlingly better than I am, and they were proud
>             of that, I wouldn't find it cringy. (Ditto in my other
>             hobbies, like Aikido.)
>
>             I guess if I met someone who had a slight edge in their
>             drunk-buddy home games, and they were super proud of THAT,
>             then i would find it cringy. (Ditto someone who's the best
>             Aikido student in their small dojo, but who's obviously
>             not more than that.)
>
>             When I see academic work on game theory, it's usually of
>             lower quality than what the good poker players are doing
>             these days. Mastering the game is crazy hard, and being
>             able to sit down and implement a coherent and winning
>             strategy for 40-80 hours a week is not easy. So... why
>             would that be cringe?
>
>             On Wed, Nov 3, 2021 at 1:42 PM Marcus Daniels
>             <marcus at snoutfarm.com> wrote:
>
>                 Ok, part of the story is knowing what is really needed
>                 for reproducibility as a function of context.
>
>                 With that, then there's the matter of how much control
>                 is afforded.   Is it programmable in predictable ways?
>
>                 -----Original Message-----
>
>                 From: Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com> On Behalf Of
>                 u?l? ?>$
>
>                 Sent: Wednesday, November 3, 2021 8:20 AM
>
>                 To:friam at redfish.com
>
>                 Subject: Re: [FRIAM] lurking
>
>                 Yeah, I agree. But context is Queen. When the virus is
>                 created in the lab, it's done with real stuff
>                 distilled from the soupy world. Given enough of a
>                 difference in context, the robot may not be able to
>                 re-constitute the life because the soupy world
>                 surrounding the robot doesn't have the real stuff
>                 required. Such drastic context changes could be a
>                 result of translation through space or time. E.g.
>                 trying to construct, on Mars, an organism
>                 read/serialized on earth. Or e.g. trying to construct
>                 an organism read millennia ago, millennia in the
>                 future. It's naive to talk about "science" as if any
>                 given read-out formula thereby expressed is
>                 *complete*. Science is abstraction to a large extent
>                 ... maybe not as abstracting as math, of course. And
>                 science must remain "open" precisely because any
>                 formula it expresses is suspect, perhaps incomplete.
>
>                 My favorite example is the magic brewing
>                 stick:https://medievalmeadandbeer.wordpress.com/2019/05/04/scandinavian-yeast-logs-yeast-rings/It
>                 *was* scientific to lay out the magic stick as a
>                 critical element of the brewing process, only to
>                 discover later that the stick isn't the important part.
>
>                 On 11/2/21 2:39 PM, Marcus Daniels wrote:
>
>                 > Even if that were so, viruses have been pulled from
>                 history or tweaked and created in the lab.   So we
>                 have a design specification, and the means to make
>                 it.    One could imagine a robot fabricating the
>                 close-to-the-metal machine too.   There is a story one
>                 can write down how it is done.   If there is no story,
>                 it is not science we are talking about, it is
>                 something else.
>
>                 --
>
>                 "Better to be slapped with the truth than kissed with
>                 a lie."
>
>                 ☤>$ uǝlƃ
>
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