[FRIAM] Another Stunning Hydrogen Development - Retake Our Democracy

[Frank Wimberly]

How do you compress the air?  Any method I can think of uses energy.  From
what source?

Frank

---
Frank C. Wimberly
140 Calle Ojo Feliz,
Santa Fe, NM 87505

505 670-9918
Santa Fe, NM

On Mon, Feb 7, 2022, 10:57 AM Michael Orshan <morshan at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi.  I'm a reader more than a contributor, but the Hydrogen discussion is
> close to my day to day.
>
> Many of us in renewables think Hydrogen might mostly be kick the can as
> Steve mentioned.  It is something that might be economically feasible in
> the 2030s and so the length of time oil companies sell oil increases.
> Having said that, there are a number of very pricey Hydrogen projects
> getting funded.  That might be showing how profitable the O&G industry is.
>
> I'm working with a company we call Breeze <http://www.breezesqueeze.com>.
> It uses compressed air in pipelines to move turbines at power plants.
> Without fossil fuels or using water this is getting a lot of attention.
> There are many advantages such as cold air where compressed air is released
> that can be used by data centers.  25% of all GHGs come from generating
> electricity.  45% of all water used in the US is used to create
> electricity.
>
> We see this as a better option than Hydrogen.  We do think Hydrogen fuel
> cells are a solution for mobile applications.
>
> Mike Orshan
>
> On Mon, Feb 7, 2022 at 10:27 AM Steve Smith <sasmyth at swcp.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> On 2/6/22 8:31 PM, Marcus Daniels wrote:
>>
>>
>> https://thebulletin.org/2022/01/whether-green-blue-or-turquoise-hydrogen-needs-to-be-clean-and-cheap/
>>
>>     *Low-cost fossil fuel resources are finite. Someday it will simply
>> not be possible to burn oil, natural gas, and coal for the affordable heat,
>> electricity, and motive power humans need to power their prosperous
>> societies. *
>>
>> Must we always begin with the assumption that growth in terms of
>> geographical/geometric, material and energy consumption/appropriation are
>> requisite to continuing/growing a "prosperous society"?   Tangentially (or
>> not), if "green" hydrogen implies a 2:1 ratio of CO2 production to H2 but
>> often begins with fossil fuels, it is obviously yet another "kick the can
>> down the road" solution.   Harvesting solar and direct-solar/lunar-derived
>> energy (including wind, tidal) and channeling it through our living
>> (including technological infrastructure and agri-industry) systems to yield
>> high-entropy "waste heat" seems to be orders of magnitude more sustainable
>> (if still questionable on some very long time-scale limited by a
>> Dyson-Sphere-like-limit).    If the H2 is created by cracking H20 (and
>> capturing both to be recombined later to release energy) using solar (and
>> other renewables) energy it is a *closed cycle*.  One would presume the
>> total amount of H2 we would have stored/
>>
>> From ecology there comes the observed phenomena of "island syndrome"
>> which can include island dwarfism and poikilothermy which are both driven
>> by reducing the demand on finite resources without giving up function or
>> complexity.
>>
>> From Alexander Payne comes the absurdist SciFi flick Downsizing
>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Downsizing_(film)#Plot> which postulates
>> by shrinking humans by ???-fold (5 inches tall ~= 12:1 in 1 dimension,
>> 144:1 in cross section and 1728:1 in volume/mass... )  the movie implies no
>> change in metabolic rates which would nominally speed up with "shrinkage",
>> yielding (also) shorter lifespans.   Oh well.. Fiction.   But the point
>> would seem well taken... Gaia would get a 2000:1 reprieve from our
>> *current* energy/mass burden on her systems.
>>
>> I'm not promoting shrinking people as-such, just noting that our 0th
>> order instinct is growth, and supralinear if at all possible, up to and
>> likely achieving Kurzweillian asymptotic resource consumption.
>>
>> On that note, I believe that the myriad technological singularity
>> concepts all point toward increased complexity  and downscaling to extend
>> the use of material and energy, driving up the effective collective
>> metabolism of "the system" and paradoxically *increasing* the rate at which
>> we approach any of the jillion ecophagic gray-goo
>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gray_goo>-like scenarios neo-luddites
>> like me might contrive.
>>
>> I assume (but have not yet poked around for) that Alifers have already
>> studied the multi-scale *structure* of negative entropy profiles in complex
>> systems-of-systems.   I think Glen has his ear closer to that rail than
>> some here?  EricS? ??? I'm still fascinated in the topic but gave up my
>> little-toenail-purchase in the community in the early 2000s - Symbiotic
>> Intelligence ALifeVI
>> <https://cseweb.ucsd.edu//~rik/alife6/papers/SY51.html>.   This reads so
>> naive yet (mildly) prophetic now...
>>
>> All is lost! Flee the solar system!
>>
>>
>>
>> On Feb 6, 2022, at 7:20 PM, thompnickson2 at gmail.com wrote:
>>
>> 
>>
>> Grey hydrogen?
>>
>>
>> https://retakeourdemocracy.org/2022/02/06/another-stunning-hydrogen-development/
>>
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