[FRIAM] NickC channels DaveW

Pieter Steenekamp pieters at randcontrols.co.za
Thu Jan 19 06:17:02 EST 2023

*Sadly, there are some hidden elements to all that techno-optimism.*

Yes, sadly the world is unequal and those at the bottom of the economic
ladder just don't get a good deal.

On the positive side, looking back at the history of mankind there is
evidence that it is now better to live than ever in the past for the large
majority of humankind. This is true even though it is the sad truth that
it's very far from perfect; human suffering is a reality, Glen's comment is
sad but true.

The question of course is whether it will continue to go better?

It's just impossible to know the future. One person can believe it'll go
better in the future, another that it'll be worse, each with tons of  good

I for one, embrace the optimism of Sam Altman, just for completeness I
repeat his quote and give the reference again.
"Intelligence and energy have been the fundamental limiters towards most
things we want. A future where these are not the limiting reagents will be
radically different, and can be amazingly better."
Taken from

In conclusion, yes I agree with Glen that there are sadly hidden elements
to all the techno-optimism. but this does not dampen my enthusiasm for the
future triggered by abundant intelligence and energy.

On Wed, 18 Jan 2023 at 21:08, glen <gepropella at gmail.com> wrote:

> Sadly, there are some hidden elements to all that techno-optimism. E.g.
> https://nitter.cz/billyperrigo/status/1615682180201447425#m
> On 1/18/23 00:40, Pieter Steenekamp wrote:
> > I totally agree that realizable behavior is what matters.
> >
> > The elephant in the room is whether AI (and robotics of course) will
> (not to replace but to) be able to do better than humans in all respects,
> including come up with creative solutions to not only the world's most
> pressing problems but also small creative things like writing poems, and
> then to do the mental and physical tasks required to provide goods and
> services to all in the world,
> >
> > Sam Altman said there are two things that will shape our future;
> intelligence and energy. If we have real abundant intelligence and energy,
> the world will be very different indeed.
> >
> > To quote Sam Altmen at
> https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/tech/startups/intelligence-energy-sam-altmans-technology-predictions-for-2020s/articleshow/86088731.cms
> <
> https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/tech/startups/intelligence-energy-sam-altmans-technology-predictions-for-2020s/articleshow/86088731.cms>
>  :
> >
> > "intelligence and energy have been the fundamental limiters towards most
> things we want. A future where these are not the limiting reagents will be
> radically different, and can be amazingly better."
> >
> >
> >
> > On Wed, 18 Jan 2023 at 03:06, Marcus Daniels <marcus at snoutfarm.com
> <mailto:marcus at snoutfarm.com>> wrote:
> >
> >     Definitions are all fine and good, but realizable behavior is what
> matters.   Analog computers will have imperfect behavior, and there will be
> leakage between components.   A large network of transistors or neurons are
> sufficiently similar for my purposes.   The unrolling would be inside a
> skull, so somewhat isolated from interference.
> >
> >     -----Original Message-----
> >     From: Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com <mailto:
> friam-bounces at redfish.com>> On Behalf Of glen
> >     Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2023 2:11 PM
> >     To: friam at redfish.com <mailto:friam at redfish.com>
> >     Subject: Re: [FRIAM] NickC channels DaveW
> >
> >     I don't quite grok that. A crisp definition of recursion implies no
> interaction with the outside world, right? If you can tolerate the
> ambiguity in that statement, the artifacts laying about from an unrolled
> recursion might be seen and used by outsiders. That's not to say a
> trespasser can't have some sophisticated intrusion technique. But unrolled
> seems more "open" to family, friends, and the occasional acquaintance.
> >
> >     On 1/17/23 13:37, Marcus Daniels wrote:
> >      > I probably didn't pay enough attention to the thread some time
> ago on serialization, but to me recursion is hard to distinguish from an
> unrolling of recursion.
> >
> --
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