[FRIAM] why musk bought twitter
steve smith
sasmyth at swcp.com
Thu Aug 8 13:11:56 EDT 2024
Elon/Musk/elno is such a bastard, I so love to hate him and I so hate to
love him.
I can't say I love the bastard hisself, but my early indoctrination in
to all things libertarian (hyper-individualistic with a strong
technophilic overlay?) and age-of-WTF tech (starting with
age-of-transport/comms Tom Swift series of juvenile novels to limited DC
comics to Scientific Romances (Verne, Burroughs, et. al.) and then Hard
Sci Fi (Asimov, Clarke, Heinlein) and a taste of Golden Age (Van Vogt,
Williamson, et al) and then the CyberPunk (Gibson, Sterling, Stephenson,
Cadigan, ...) and proto cyberpunk (Brunner, ???) all made me subject to
a latent and lingering affection for the "Good Old Fashioned Future"
which I often chastise here in my neo-retro-Luddism...
Lex's interviews as well as Isaacson's biography have really
personalized Musk for me in a way that I feel allows me to properly
empathise and even sympathise with his nature while also feeling acutely
cautioned by the danger such a formidably, potentially
psycho-socially-pathological creature he might be... or at least in the
spirit of "power is corruption", the outsize amount of power he carries
by his (self made by some measure) circumstance almost by definition
condemns his to a similar scale of corruption?
As for him leaving on a rocket to Mars, this reminds me of the work
contexts where I have watched underlings actively seek a promotion for
their boss, just to get them out of their hair. I do think he would
cause less problems as Emperor of Barsoom, however, than if he injected
himself (inside a distributed Grok Cluster?) into the Asteroid belt as a
Borg-like or Lawnmower Man effigy. His persona, as reflected by many
of his critics/detractors reminds me acutely of SID 6.7 (Virtuosity
1995?) and Ah-nolds depiction of the Terminator, even thought I think
that is a bit of a caricature.
On 8/7/24 8:07 AM, Marcus Daniels wrote:
> He better get on a rocket to Mars, because Tesla shareholders are
> going to crucify him.
>
> tesla-ai-brain-maze-760x380.jpg
> Elon Musk says Tesla is an AI company now. Here’s how plausible that
> is.
> <https://arstechnica.com/cars/2024/08/elon-musk-says-tesla-is-an-ai-company-now-heres-how-plausible-that-is/>
> arstechnica.com
> <https://arstechnica.com/cars/2024/08/elon-musk-says-tesla-is-an-ai-company-now-heres-how-plausible-that-is/>
>
> <https://arstechnica.com/cars/2024/08/elon-musk-says-tesla-is-an-ai-company-now-heres-how-plausible-that-is/>
>
>
>> On Aug 6, 2024, at 6:18 AM, Sarbajit Roy <sroy.mb at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> If you are including "divine experiences" from other world religions,
>> I can suggest 2 candidates from Hinduism. It would be very
>> interesting to see how these became so well known in this part of the
>> woods.
>>
>> a) Mahasaya Lahiri and his encounter with Mahaavatra Babaji
>> https://www.dunagiri.com/post/autobiography-of-a-yogi-34-babajis-cave
>>
>> b) The Katha Upanishad : A very young boy Nachiketa (son of a
>> respected sage) and his dialogues with Yama (YamRaj) the God of Death.
>>
>> Sarbajit Roy
>>
>> On Mon, Aug 5, 2024 at 8:43 PM Prof David West <profwest at fastmail.fm>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Minor comment from a :metaphor obsessed colleague." I am teaching
>> an honors course at the University of St. Thomas in the spring:
>> Effing the Ineffable, with a colleague who teaches Theology. The
>> basic premise: you just had this extraordinary experience and you
>> want to communicate/share it with others. How do you do so?"
>> Metaphor, obviously.
>>
>> Case studies will cover a spectrum from Michael Jordan-like "in
>> the zone" experiences to acid trips to Moses and the burning bush
>> to J. Smith and the golden plates. We are undecided if we dare
>> include Mohamed as a case study even though all other religions
>> and mystical traditions are fair game. One thread in the
>> acid-trip area is how contemporary science has provide a host of
>> new metaphors from the realm of physics, etc. that can be
>> utilized to provide a more "accurate" or "satisfying" Effing.
>>
>> davew
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Aug 5, 2024, at 9:07 AM, glen wrote:
>> > These are all fine propositions. But, as you point out,
>> sacrificing his
>> > status doesn't rationally add up. Snyder's proposing a solution to
>> > that. To boot, Snyder's proposition attempts to explain a bunch of
>> > other "data" (like the way we use our smartphones and exhibit a
>> > tendency toward conspiracy theories, gurus, and alternate facts -
>> > oracular truth).
>> >
>> > One thing not quite addressed by Snyder is the apparent
>> rationalism in
>> > things like longtermism, effective altruism, etc. For that, I
>> think
>> > he'd have to flesh out how actual/useful/realist truth
>> dovetails with
>> > oracular/mystical truth. He mentions during his talk that, of
>> course
>> > actual tech (like starting a fire) is involved in oracular
>> truth. You
>> > have to start the fire and burn some incense to enthrall your
>> victims.
>> > I think, here is where our metaphor-obsessed colleagues could
>> apply
>> > their skills. Where is, eg, "fire" an actual thing and where is
>> it a
>> > metaphor (eg Prometheus). When should the guru discourage
>> metaphor (the
>> > fire doesn't matter!, pay attention to my hand movements) and when
>> > should they encourage it?
>> >
>> > The New Rationalists (including Singerian EA) are masters of
>> metaphor,
>> > either being guided to focus on a small slice of reality or
>> guiding
>> > others to do so, abstracting out some stupid thought experiment
>> like
>> > kids falling into ponds or Trolleys headed toward clueless weirdos
>> > standing on train tracks. Such metaphor is a proven
>> manipulation tactic
>> > used by gurus like Rasputin or Plato the world over.
>> >
>> > Which of the witches are actually also enthralled and which are
>> > Barnum-style manipulators? To me, Thiel seems like the latter
>> and Musk
>> > seems like the former.
>> >
>> > On 8/2/24 13:52, Marcus Daniels wrote:
>> >> Perhaps realizing his interests require tapping government
>> resources and many trillions of dollars. I could see that for
>> that it might make sense to use Twitter to manipulate the media
>> and create the political support for his agenda(s). Maybe it
>> even makes sense to want Trump elected so that social service
>> spending will be stopped, and more money can be redirected to his
>> Mechzilla projects. Perhaps he finds an open society creates
>> too many competing goals, and, by supporting authoritarian
>> thinking and Trump in particular, he anticipates a government
>> that is easier to focus the way he likes. What doesn't add up
>> is that it was already going well for him with relatively wealthy
>> Americans, and then he trashed his reputation and the
>> profitability of Tesla for no apparent good reason. The kind of
>> people that will now by an Audi E-Tron instead of a Model S, or
>> an Ionic 5 instead of a Model 3. He also seems way too engaged
>> in topics like transgender rights and immigration. None of
>> these issues need influence his life at all. It is as if he
>> really believes some of the peculiar things he says.
>> >>
>> >> -----Original Message-----
>> >> From: Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com> On Behalf Of glen
>> >> Sent: Friday, August 2, 2024 11:45 AM
>> >> To: friam at redfish.com
>> >> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] why musk bought twitter
>> >>
>> >> I clearly don't understand. Snyder's explanation is that Elno
>> is a god, and views himself as a god (or the weaker concept of a
>> hero). So Elno is both building/burying his hoard so that it'll
>> be available across the transition *and* Lying to his flock such
>> that they sacrifice to him in order to engage in projects that
>> will ensure the transition happens and that he and his flock will
>> exist on the other side.
>> >>
>> >> None of that is nihilist. What am I missing?
>> >>
>> >> On 8/2/24 11:32, Marcus Daniels wrote:
>> >>> I was addressing Snyder's recommendation rather than the
>> development of Elon's personality. Assuming the personality Elon
>> presents is really his. I suspect it is, which would be kind of
>> a disappointment.
>> >>>
>> >>> -----Original Message-----
>> >>> From: Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com> On Behalf Of glen
>> >>> Sent: Friday, August 2, 2024 11:25 AM
>> >>> To: friam at redfish.com
>> >>> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] why musk bought twitter
>> >>>
>> >>> IDK. That sounds like you projecting onto Elno, rather than
>> an explanation that relies on Elno's [hi]story. His narrative arc
>> is (as Harris laid out in his video) is "the potential of
>> humankind". And that doesn't seem nihilist to me. Maybe he's
>> become one, of course. As Harris states in the video, when he
>> became the richest man, a qualitative shift may have taken place.
>> Harris argues the shift was he bought Twitter because he *need*
>> conflict and obstacles to overcome. Maybe you could argue the
>> qualitative change was that he became a nihilist when his hoard
>> met that criterion. But because he continues to be an "AI Doomer"
>> (at least in rhetoric and an accelerationist in action), there's
>> some sort of Rawlsian curtain, like the singularity ... something
>> on the other side of the transition - and an attempt to bury
>> one's hoard so that it's available on the other side. And I think
>> that eschatological conception fits better with his narrative arc
>> than a nihilistic one.
>> >>>
>> >>> On 8/2/24 11:11, Marcus Daniels wrote:
>> >>>> My standard answer to this is -- given the neural reference
>> frame of nihilism -- is why not try some grand social
>> experiments. There is no Purpose, so causing harm in the short
>> term, or for that matter long term, ultimately doesn't matter.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> -----Original Message-----
>> >>>> From: Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com> On Behalf Of glen
>> >>>> Sent: Friday, August 2, 2024 8:12 AM
>> >>>> To: friam at redfish.com
>> >>>> Subject: [FRIAM] why musk bought twitter
>> >>>>
>> >>>> This guy does what I think is a good job demonstrating that
>> Elno's stated reasons (free speech, liberal bias, censorship) for
>> buying Twitter were false:
>> >>>>
>> >>>> The Problem With Elon Musk
>> >>>> https://youtu.be/WYQxG4KEzvo?si=oXumcC8aqsYMTzdC&t=1487
>> <https://youtu.be/WYQxG4KEzvo?si=oXumcC8aqsYMTzdC&t=1487>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Sure, we can project whatever fantasies we want into the
>> mind of an oligarch like Elno. But if we're trying to do a good
>> job, find an explanation that's "hard to vary" (ala Deutsch),
>> we're left empty handed. However Timothy Snyder provides us with
>> something I think's intriguing; and it reflects various other
>> arguments I've made, here, about TESCREAL
>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TESCREAL>.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Here's where I heard Snyder's setup:
>> >>>>
>> >>>> The New Paganism: How the Postmodern Became the Premodern
>> >>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Nr2Q2zGNC8
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Appended below is Claude's summary of the talk. But the
>> essence is that these people "believe" (somehow) they can "take
>> it with them" in a similar way to the pagans (e.g. Vikings,
>> Egyptians, etc.) believing they could hoard their stuff and
>> somehow have access to it in the next life. This reflects well, I
>> think, Musk's objectives for SpaceX, Tesla, breeding children,
>> etc. It's somewhere between believing in souls, one's legacy, and
>> spreading humanity (not biology, of course, but humanity)
>> throughout the universe.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> My guess is most of our Oligarchs will give lip service to
>> spiritual beliefs like Christianity or whatever, but are actually
>> more atheistic in their ephemerides. But if you spend enough time
>> arguing about atheism, you consistently find people (even
>> atheistic people) asking for Purpose (with a capital P). Why are
>> we here? What should we be doing? Etc. Despite our overwhelming
>> rationalism/justificationism, many (most?) of us still seek that
>> grand arch. And those of us who are *lucky* enough to be
>> extraordinarily successful (in whatever domain) are at the most
>> risk for this irrational/fideistic, paganist, TESCREAL Purpose. I
>> think it's a relatively strong hypothesis for why Musk bought
>> Twitter.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Claude's summary:
>> >>>>> - Snyder argues that conventional explanations based on
>> rationality and interests fail to adequately explain the rise of
>> right-wing populist movements and figures like Trump, Putin, and
>> Musk. Instead, he proposes analyzing these phenomena through the
>> lens of what he calls "neopaganism."
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> - He identifies four key dimensions of neopaganism: value,
>> sacrifice, charisma, and oracular truth.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> - On value, he argues today's oligarchs hoard wealth as if
>> they can "take it with them" after death, similar to pagan burial
>> practices.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> - On sacrifice, he contends oligarchs are sacrificing the
>> earth itself through climate change, taking the world down with
>> them. Putin's invasion of Ukraine also has a sacrificial logic.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> - Charismatic leaders tell big lies to create an alternate
>> reality their followers live inside. Trump and Putin exemplify this.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> - Modern technology, especially smartphones, function as
>> pagan "oracles" - sources of addictive but often deceptive truth
>> that make us more stupid over time.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> - Snyder believes the humanities are crucial for reflecting
>> on these issues and finding a way out of our current crisis. A
>> narrow, failed rationality has enabled these destructive
>> dynamics. What's needed is a richer, more reflective notion of
>> human freedom.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> In summary, Snyder argues we need to understand the
>> pagan-like irrationality and destructiveness driving our world
>> today in order to have any hope of countering it. The humanities
>> provide essential resources for this task.
>> >>>
>> >
>> > --
>> > ꙮ Mɥǝu ǝlǝdɥɐuʇs ɟᴉƃɥʇ' ʇɥǝ ƃɹɐss snɟɟǝɹs˙ ꙮ
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