[FRIAM] This makes me think of this list...

[steve smith]

Marcus wrote:
>
> The recent results about AI Models collapsing when trained on 
> recursively generated data seems to me to apply to this kind of human 
> political activity as well.
>
> https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-024-07566-y
>
I think the MAGA machine is collapsing under this weight as we speak, 
and it may have risen in the wake of the a similar collapse of it's 
parent GOP/TeaParty and it's antiChrist Liberal/Progressive ness.
>
> Btw, is there a disagreeable LLM bot out there?  Whenever I chat with 
> LLMs, I get a lot of accommodation.
>
Per "the other thread" here, I believe this design bias was installed to 
"enhance coherence" but that it is "ham fisted" and limits what 
human-LLM interaction is capable of.

In my open-ended experiments with LLMs (GPT in particular) I have tried 
to steer it away from this as well as trying to renormalize my own 
response to that amiability.  I don't seek to pick fights with it, but I 
work hard not to let it mollify me with flattery or amiability.

I don't need the sinister "What are you doing Dave?" of HAL but I do get 
very tired of it's obsequiousness, it takes work to balance that I could 
put maybe more productively in seeking a more genuine "coherence"?

I hope there is serious work going on there.



> *From: *Friam <friam-bounces at redfish.com> on behalf of Frank Wimberly 
> <wimberly3 at gmail.com>
> *Date: *Tuesday, August 13, 2024 at 5:40 PM
> *To: *The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group 
> <friam at redfish.com>
> *Subject: *[FRIAM] This makes me think of this list...
>
>
>
>
>         Are We Living in the Age of Info-Determinism?
>         <https://link.newyorker.com/click/36396552.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>
>
> /Increasingly, our networks seem to be steering our history in ways we 
> don’t like and can’t control./
>
> Image removed by sender. Image may contain: Person, Advertisement, 
> Poster, and Art 
> <https://link.newyorker.com/click/36396552.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>
>
> Illustration by Josie Norton 
> <https://link.newyorker.com/click/36396552.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>
>
> *“Call it info-determinism:* the belief that the ways that information 
> flows through the world are actually a kind of web in which we’re 
> ensnared,” Joshua Rothman writes. The Internet can make it feel as 
> though information is endless, and access can make everyone feel like 
> an expert—or, at least, an expert subreddit debater. The sense that 
> there is always more to know undermines the authority of an article or 
> an institution, as does the thriving trade, among those debaters, in 
> the disassembly of ideas. Rothman’s column, Open Questions 
> <https://link.newyorker.com/click/36396552.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>, 
> unpacks open-ended queries each week. Today, he considers: What is 
> information? Does it matter if it’s true? Are we trapped?
>
> Read the story 
> <https://link.newyorker.com/click/36396552.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>
>
> ---
> Frank C. Wimberly
> 140 Calle Ojo Feliz,
> Santa Fe, NM 87505
>
> 505 670-9918
> Santa Fe, NM
>
>
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