[FRIAM] Does Dusty Love Dave, and VV.

[Barry MacKichan]

I feel permitted to barge in on this discussion, since my dog (well, our 
dog) is also named Dusty.

Frequently, I look up from what I’m doing or reading, and he is in his 
chair looking at me, and we can spend several minutes with our eyes 
locked. I call it love; he doesn’t want to talk about it. I’ve read 
that this is common behavior, and that it results in an oxytocin kick to 
both participants. I think that chemical evidence is a good addition to 
the other data in this discussion. My starting assumption is that if a 
peptide is shared between species, the effects of that peptide probably 
share similar mechanisms. I.e., the simplest explanation is that if it 
affects me through emotions, the effect in my dog is probably through 
something very much like an emotion. I’ve never seen any evidence that 
this is *not* true.

Concerning the list of consequences of a loving relationship at the end 
of your message, I would say all three are absolutely true. My wife had 
covid for the first time several months ago, and whenever she was in 
bed, both our dogs were there. When they see we are upset — a frequent 
occurrence in this election year — they will keep their eyes on us and 
stick with us until they are reassured that we are (sorta) OK. They 
sense emotions better than many humans I have known.

When Dusty was a puppy, and I was out of town, my wife took him on a 
walk, off leash, in the arroyo and slipped and fell on the icy path. 
When she opened her eyes a few seconds later, Dusty had his nose right 
up against her face.

--


On 12 Jul 2024, at 12:59, Nicholas Thompson wrote:

> [Please, Friammers,, if you join this discussion, stay close to this 
> or
> other closely related down-to-earth experiences.
>
> Dave, you offer as data:
>
>
> *Dave is sleepy and calm.*
>
> *Dusty is anxious and afraid.*
>
> *Dusty crawls onto Dave's shoulder and finds reassurance and 
> security.*
>
> *Dave is tolerant and does not shove Dusty off bed.*
>
> *Dave senses Dusty's need for reassurance and rests his arm across her 
> back
> and lets her stay as she is.*
> *Dusty relaxes and goes to sleep.*
>
> You then offer the following guide to interpretation:
>
>
> *Love is not present in this transaction, unless you presume that a 
> series
> of prior interactions created a kind of meta-state of Lovingness 
> between
> the two *
>
> I agree with you that love is a meta state in the sense that it is an
> arrangement of other behavioral states.  So I will leave that alone.
> Having so stipulated, I think it is reasonable to say, on the basis of 
> the
> data you set forth, that  a meta-state of lovingness exists between 
> you.
> (I would prefer to say you love one another, but partly in deference 
> to SG,
> I will adopt your lingo.]  To call your joint behavior loving is to 
> perform
> an abduction.  The test of an abduction is to examine the deductions 
> that
> flow from it:
>
> So, if Dave and Dusty have a loving relationship, then, on my
> understanding, the following would be true:
>
> *You would protect one another against harm.*
> *You would attend to one another if either was sick, injured, or 
> depressed.*
> *You would  become uneasy if you were separated for an unexpectedly 
> long
> time.*
>
> Are these things true?
>
> Nick

> -. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. .
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe   /   Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom 
> https://bit.ly/virtualfriam
> to (un)subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/
> archives:  5/2017 thru present 
> https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/
>   1/2003 thru 6/2021  http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/attachments/20240713/cd1a9be3/attachment.html>